Catching Up with the Calligraphers: Luxury Retail Events, Work Quality, & Negotiating Pricing

"I should be charging for that."

"Correct."

Alex of Signs of our Lives and Cat of Cat Lauren Calligraphy chat about their newfound perspective on luxury retail events, the quirks of in-studio orders, and what happens when artists sacrifice quality for speed. They also touch on pricing for events, added fees, and real life examples of communicating expectations with clients. 

Transcript

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Cat (00:10)
Hi everybody, welcome back to the Keeping Up With The Calligraphers podcast. I am Cat of Cat Lauren Calligraphy. ⁓

Alex (00:17)
And

I'm Alex of Signs of Our Lives.

Cat (00:19)
If you are new here, welcome. This is a podcast for calligraphers, live event artists, anybody working in the event industry just to talk through the things that are happening, the things that we've learned and yeah, all those things along the way. So we're so happy you're here. And if you've been listening and you've been sharing and all of those things, we appreciate you for supporting us and sharing so that other people that might benefit can find us as well. So we're here with another Keeping Up, No.

catching up with the calligraphers episode. Which hopefully you guys like the last one because we're ready to yap for this one.

Alex (00:51)
you

yeah, it's super fun to do because we kind of just get to talk about all the random things that like, don't fit into other episodes that are more topical and we can just kind of tell y'all about what we have going on. So thanks for being here. We appreciate you.

We should address the elephant in the room cat. We've been doing luxury retail events. Again.

Cat (01:13)
Which one?

again.

It just, what, don't know. What were your thoughts this time around?

Alex (01:27)
well, okay, so I totally, I mean, we obviously have talked about this in episodes before, so if you haven't heard them, we have for sure had thoughts and feelings about working luxury number one and then working retail number two. So part of why I didn't like it was because a lot of times they wouldn't pay my rate. However, I feel like they've been paying both of our rate. They're both just like...

Cat (01:35)
you

You

Yeah, with like no pushback this time.

Alex (01:48)
They're both, I'm saying they're all just,

yeah, all of our clients are like, sounds good. And I'm like, ⁓ okay, well, great. guess, I guess I'll do it. I guess I'll be there. I guess I'll be sending six hours in your store. ⁓

Cat (01:57)
Guess I'll be there then.

More like 12

because it's never one day. I guess you did one day. I did.

Alex (02:07)
yeah, that's true. Although I, yeah, I did two

one days. Yeah, you did one two day. Yeah. So yeah, we have been doing them. But for me, it's because they pay the rate and I really do like the teams that I've worked with personally, like there's one that I was like coming back and then the second one, it was so funny, like I walked into the back room they were serving champagne so that I was like kind of helping

Cat (02:13)
Yes.

Alex (02:33)
do the champagne thing, bring it back to the sink and whatnot. And I walked in, she was like, my God, I was just saying how much I love you. Like have you worked these events before? And I was like, no, I just really love yapping I was like, well, yeah, I've worked events. But I was like, I'm so glad you're saying that because some brands don't like that I yapp.

Cat (02:50)
They didn't like

that I was a yapper.

Alex (02:54)
Yep, and so I

was like, well, thank goodness you like that. I was like, I can tone it down. She was like, no, you're doing great. Like you're because I just I talk to every fucking person that walks in. I will try to sell the bags.

Cat (03:04)
You

You're like, I know nothing about this snakeskin bag, but I think it would look great with you.

Alex (03:09)
No, but I'll be like this color the shape

this whatever like I can always I can always put it on not in like a cheesy salesman like car salesman way, but just in a Well, if you're interested in this one, how about this one or like this color? Yeah, like I just I want them to get what's best for them. So Yeah, I feel like Yeah For sure. So I feel like it's been fun

Cat (03:22)
No, a helpful girly pop way.

You're just a girl's girl.

you

Alex (03:33)
It wasn't as bad. Especially there was like one that I could do calligraphy and they just had like an excess of all these notes. I was literally just like writing poems. I was sticking them around and then they were the associates were helping me write the poems when it was dead and was like sticking them around the store. No, it cute. So that one was fun.

Cat (03:35)
I agree.

Yeah.

That's so fun!

They went off script and I love that.

Alex (03:57)
Yeah, what a

Yes, and I think like that's what it is. the inflexibility of certain brands that are like, we're only doing this and you don't talk to anyone and you did it that's where I'm like, this is ridiculous. we're all just humans floating on a rock. What are we doing? let me talk to people. So yeah, how did yours go?

Cat (04:07)
Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. I feel

like this time around felt better. I don't know. I don't know why that was. I've worked with this brand before. It was definitely different than last year. I don't know. Last year was just like very dead. I don't know if that was also just because it was like following the fires. And so just the vibe in general in LA was not that people like were ready to

Alex (04:20)
Good.

it was rough last year.

Cat (04:35)
be buying things. But no, this year was a lot better. feel like the shifts normally feel like they drag on. It went by a lot faster this time. The people that I was working with,

were not like overly chatty, but they were just like super friendly. And even when we were talking, it wasn't like surface level. So the conversations felt like they were lasting a little bit longer. All of the people that came in were actually super personable, which was cool. I don't know, sometimes you get the people that come in and they're like a little standoffish, especially when you're at like a flagship store. But

Alex (05:08)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Cat (05:11)
I know everybody that came in like had a story to tell and honestly This is like a little off-brand for this podcast, but like I want to give the men their flowers I actually had so I had so many men that were coming in with the most like thoughtful things that they were

writing on these cards, they weren't just standing there being like, yeah, that's fine. Whatever or like, I didn't have anybody sitting there doing chat G BT or anything like that, which like, no shade, but it just felt like all of the messages were just genuinely from their hearts or like they were just genuinely very creative, all of them like

It was so nice. And there were so many. So it was like also NBA All-Star weekend. And I notoriously cannot identify literally anybody, like a celebrity. I have no idea who any of them are. Celebrities in the wild. like, I don't know who any of you are. But I know at one point there was like nine celebrities, because I could hear.

Alex (06:03)
I know.

Cat (06:12)
everybody on the intercoms being like, we need more advisors on the floor. There's like nine celebrities in the store right now. And I was like, I don't know what any of these people are. But I just based on athletic build, I could assume that the man that was walking in that was seven feet tall.

Alex (06:19)
shit. ⁓

You're like, they're seven feet. Yeah,

they're seven feet tall. Maybe, maybe basketball. ⁓

Cat (06:30)
is probably an athlete.

But so many of them are coming in and buying for their moms are buying like for their daughters so the men kind of nailed it that I came across this year. And I love that for the women on the other side. So it actually was not that bad of an experience. It's still not my like

Alex (06:37)
Cute.

I love.

We love that. Love that so much.

Cat (06:55)
preferred type of event, but it was not that bad this time. Less to complain about this time.

Alex (06:59)
Hahaha

Yeah, I'm

like, did we manifest I don't know, these people doing great things because they're paying our rate. It's like a fun environment. It like is. Yeah, clients are better. Same, same. They were just like all black.

Cat (07:05)
Hahaha

I didn't have to wear a button all the way up to my neck. I wore just like a

black dress with these cute little tights that say I love you in like all these different languages and calligraphy all I felt very me, felt very comfortable.

Alex (07:21)
⁓ dude.

cute. It was very you.

It was very you and your shoes were so good. Your whole everything was so good. I love it. I did not do that.

Cat (07:33)
But yeah, so wasn't that bad.

It was not that bad. other events like recently? Is there anything that you like had stuff that you wanted to yap about? Like you did Grammy stuff.

Alex (07:46)
⁓ no,

I did do Grammy stuff. That was really cool. Again, don't know who people are. especially musicians, especially musicians, unless they're like a top five, 10 artists, like even still, like I saw Olivia Rodrigo at an event and I didn't even know I was talking to her. I have no idea.

Cat (07:52)
You

You did work.

And honestly,

that's kind of the move because I feel like then you're not inadvertently treating them one way or another. I don't know. I feel like that works out better.

Alex (08:11)
fangirling.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's just like, especially with musicians, you don't always know what they look like because you might like hear their voice and be like, ⁓ yeah, like that's so and so. yeah, unless it's like Taylor Swift or like even Charlie XCX. I don't know if I'd be able to like pick her out. Like maybe and like Chapel for sure. We all know, like, but I don't.

Cat (08:32)
No, couldn't.

I still miss that one to be honest.

Alex (08:40)
That's valid, that's valid. Yeah, like no makeup, just not doing the nipple piercing thing, you would just be like, don't know her.

Cat (08:40)
Like if she came up with like a bun or something like

Yeah. You know

what? So here's the thing. Have you watched you the Netflix show with? Okay. I'm always watching that show and I'm like, you think a hat is gonna conceal you enough? And then I go to these events and I literally cannot recognize any of these people. I'm like, you know what? A hat totally would work on me as a disguise. I have no idea who you are.

Alex (08:53)
Obviously. Yeah.

That's hilarious. Like actually you're totally different person.

Cat (09:10)
I mean, I am,

but I don't know who you are actually, Joe Goldberg. You put that out on, I don't know who you are.

Alex (09:17)
Different person. Backwards hot? Wow. Third person. Holy shit.

Cat (09:19)
Yeah.

Fedora versus a baseball hat? Whoa.

Alex (09:24)
Whoa. That's like, yeah, it's too difficult. Okay, but I also feel like we should talk about how you've been sick for like 500 years. Tell us.

Cat (09:30)
This plague is taking

me the fuck out. If this is not all of my sickness for 2026, I don't know what I will do. Like I have literally been sick for the entirety of 2026. Like starting January 1st, just unwell is fine. It is after Valentine's Day.

Alex (09:48)
and it is now mid February.

Yeah, that's.

Cat (09:53)
Like truly,

if this is not all my sickness for 2026 and I am not the most healthful person for the rest of the year, I just simply cannot. I don't know what I will do.

Alex (10:01)
fuck.

I've never heard that word.

Cat (10:06)
It might not be a word to be honest, but whatever.

Alex (10:08)
okay,

I mean, at least for me, I feel like January had a little bit of a slump. Did you have a slump? No, you're like, you're like, I've just been working the entire time.

Cat (10:15)
I in in January alone

I was in Paris, Puerto Rico, Santa Barbara, Palm Springs, DC.

before January 27th.

Alex (10:27)
Why is why are you sick? That's so

weird?

Cat (10:30)
Why am I unwell? Correlation is not causation, okay?

Alex (10:32)
They're just like fucking patient zero, just traveling shit, all these ways.

love that for you. I was gonna say, well at least we've been like slightly less busy than December, but maybe that's just me.

Cat (10:44)
I've been slightly less busy

in February. I have gotten a lot of studio work, which I didn't have any events for the award season that kind of passed like.

which I get like, we're in LA. well, you're in San Diego, but like still do a lot in LA. So if you're listening, that's why we're talking about so many awards for things because we're literally right here. But I didn't do any events for that. But I had so many like last minute, can you do all these products for us or whatever? I probably had like nine or 10 and I don't like I do them, but I don't necessarily advertise them. ⁓

Alex (10:58)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Cat (11:18)
I had a lot and they were all like rush delivery, like need this done by tomorrow because I'm not going to get my list until today kind of thing.

which has been nice, because then I could just like do them on my own time, which works for me with my family.

Alex (11:35)
I love that. I love that so much for you. The thing about the studio orders, and I don't know if you feel this, but it's I would say half the time I do have the supplies I need and the other half of the time I feel like they're like, we want this in...

like white and it's on this material and you're like great I need this specific marker for that to work on that and it needs to be a fine tip and of course all the fine tips they have are fucking dry or I don't have them yeah and then you like go to the store and then they're not there and you're like cool great love this it's

Cat (11:56)
Sold out.

Alex (12:04)
Is that your experience? Because I literally tried to convince a client recently out of whatever they wanted, which thank God, like it did work out. I was like, actually, I think this would look much nicer. And they were like, my God, agree. You know, so that saved my butt. Cause I was like, now I have to like go to the fucking store and like things open and da da. But all these last minute orders send me through a spiral, but it's not because I can't do them. It's because for some reason it's always.

Cat (12:16)
Yeah.

I'm not like equipped in that moment

for them.

Alex (12:30)
Yeah, they're like, well, do you have this color? And you're like, well, fucking no. You're like, I don't have your brand color. yeah.

Cat (12:37)
Yeah, I don't have your exact Pantone match.

No, I didn't necessarily have the experience of like, I need this specific thing. But there are pain in the ass because I always assume I don't need as much time as I do. And I forget that it takes fucking forever to prep the items that I got to like, for the mirror compacts, like peel off both sides of the stupid film. And then because I have time to draft them, I obviously do because my fucking eyesight doesn't work

Alex (12:57)
Mm-hmm.

Ugh, yeah.

Cat (13:10)
the same as it does when I'm on site because on site I could literally just eyeball it and I'm like, yep, that's centered, looks good. They're all exactly the same. I don't know what happens when I'm at home. Like if I just like have different eyeballs, but it does not work the same. So when I'm at home and I don't know if it's because I'm at your event, you're like looking at one item at a time and then you're either putting them aside or you're like giving them back, but.

Alex (13:20)
What?

you

Cat (13:33)
I don't know if it's because I'm like seeing them all together then. So I'm like, oh no, these clearly look different. So then I'm like, I have to draft them. I gotta take all the plastic off and then I gotta clean them all. And then I gotta like put the line for the draft because at home I have to work in batches. Cause it just, in my opinion works faster. But it will literally take me like two hours before I even draft the damn item for like 30 things. And then I engrave them and then

Alex (13:36)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Cat (13:58)
to clean them off again, are they gonna take time to get the content? Because did it even happen if you don't? Did I do anything with the content? No, have you seen me fucking post a single studio order? No. But it just always takes forever. Yeah.

Alex (14:03)
Content at home, ⁓

know. Honestly those are like so much harder to post. Yeah, there's

never enough cute things around the home, at least for me. Like I don't know how people have like clean work spaces.

Cat (14:19)
My lighting in my home

doesn't work. I don't know where you guys are all finding this like cute diffused natural light because all of my windows are like direct light. All I see is my reflection and a huge eschelere.

Alex (14:31)
my god, wait, that reminded me. I saw someone, I feel like it was Imagine Joy in Canada. The calligrapher.

I feel like it was them who posted this. They pre-taped their foil on all of their items before the event. So I think they were doing like sunglasses cases or something. And they literally had them perfectly aligned, like all their foil cut, which I think we do that anyway. We cut all the foil before those foiling events, for the most part, obviously, sometimes you can't.

Cat (14:39)
Okay.

Mm-hmm

Yeah.

Alex (14:58)
and then they had them all taped like perfectly and I was like, ⁓ that probably saves like a million years because you just have them ready to go. That's true. And the space. Yeah.

Cat (15:03)
Brilliant. If you have the items though, if you have the items, cause if it's like a brand of it, a lot of times like

they're coming, which to that point I did just quote a client for prep time because they did ask if they could order the items to my house. And I'm like, I don't know where you think I'm gonna store that many items, but like, I guess. And then they were like, well you know,

you keep them? I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's fine. And then they were like, okay, so like, everything will be ready. And then I like thought about it, because it's a very high volume event. I think it's like close to 1000 people. And I was like, well, if we're doing tags, like depending on what they are, I might need some processing time that is going to be an additional fee, because sometimes these tags all come individually bagged.

Alex (15:49)
Yeah, and wrapped and another thing.

Cat (15:50)
and taking them out of their bags takes forever. So

you don't have to do that on site. And sometimes with these luggage tags, then the the buckle or whatever doesn't come on the tag. Well, it's just like the tag comes and then there's like the little like loop with the buckle on it or whatever is not on the tag. And so then that takes forever to sit there and do it. I was like, I'm doing this for 1000 items, that's gonna be like five hours of work minimum. Like, and I, I'm not.

Alex (15:59)
how's that little... ⁓ Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Cat (16:16)
charging them my on-site rate for that necessarily, but like I'm charging them something, because that's a lot of time. And that's time that I'm taking away from my family. Like even if I'm just sitting there like watching Netflix and like doing it at night, like I would rather be sitting and watching in Netflix and not doing that.

Alex (16:19)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and it's just like one more thing you have to do, right? Like as opposed to you're like working on an order or like whatever like it's one more thing you have to do and prep and all that. I feel like that's called a dryage fee like when you have to like store it.

Cat (16:36)
Yeah.

What

what language did you just speak to me?

Alex (16:48)
Nope, this honestly my

client had said this to me and I was like what is that and they were like dreage dreage dreage d- r- a- y- a- e dreage dreage dreage

Cat (16:55)
How do you spell that?

I just call

it a processing fee.

Alex (17:05)
No, that's great. I that much. But like, honestly, it's more like truckers use that like they're taking something they're storing it and then whatever. Anyways, I was like, because I looked at it, I was like, what the fuck is this? I think they took it from that. But I guess because they're in events, they have all their corporate event terms. And I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? But it's a thing. You can charge that.

Cat (17:16)
Okay. ⁓

Yeah. Sure. But honestly, to yeah,

I knew there are so many things that we should be looking like beyond our scope for because there's so many like little things that you don't realize like other industries are charging for that I feel like a lot of us don't either think we can or don't like know how to structure it. Like I had a wedding planner the other day.

Ask me what my lay time was like what my lay fee was so like for a time between when I'm actually like tie the time when I'm literally just sitting there which like sometimes I do this for events to where They'll have me come for like two hours customize things and then there's time between like a daytime event and a nighttime event and then So it's like I'm working 12 to 2 There's nothing happening between 2 to 6 and then I work again like 6 to 10 or something

Alex (17:55)
See, what is that? What is that?

Cat (18:18)
I did not realize I could be charging for that time in between. same rate, but like that is still time that I'm, I'm not gonna pick up like another event and I'm still not where I'm choosing to be

maybe like intuitively baked that into the cake for my wedding pricing, which again is why we're not just charging for the time that we're there for cocktail and reception everybody for weddings PSA, I will say this to the blue in the face, but that is a lot of time that you're still having to commit. And I was like, a late fee, duh, duh, I should be charging for that.

Alex (18:52)
No, I love that there's like a term for it,

I feel like it sounds good for the next person where like, my laafy is la la la.

Cat (18:57)
Or

even like we're gonna be releasing, I don't know what order we're doing this in, but we either just released or we'll be releasing an episode on pricing again.

And I feel like that's one of those things that like you could bake into your package price of like this includes like my travel time, my lay fee, time on site, like set up and strike time. because again, if you want me there 90 minutes early, I will give you 30 minutes as a courtesy. If you want me there an hour plus, you will be compensating me for that time that I am committing to.

Alex (19:27)
No, that's...

Cat (19:35)
And these are things I just like never would have thought of a year ago.

Alex (19:35)
Yeah, agreed.

Yeah, appropriate. I think that's great. We're all having boundaries for ourselves and charging appropriately, I hope, in 2026.

so one thing that's you can't necessarily charge for but I ended up having to charge a client for, I ended up having to stay an additional hour at a client event to fix another calligrapher's work. And I just want to say like this is no.

Cat (19:52)
to

Stop. Stop.

That is tea.

Alex (20:08)
I just like, it's really unfortunate. I felt really bad for the client, because it was like, they knew that it needed to be done, like that things needed to be redone. They knew they needed to pay for the extra time. It's so frustrating to me that

Cat (20:21)
Right.

Alex (20:24)
Part of the reason was because a lot of the lettering was not straight, which like, you know, if you look at Cat and I's work, we love a diagonal situation. For certain items, it does not apply to every single item. So I would say...

Cat (20:38)
And there's a difference between like

an intentional diagonal versus a slant. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex (20:42)
versus like a da da da da, like it's falling off the page, yeah.

So I don't know, maybe something we said got in people's brains of like, oh, we're not drafting, you know, make the process quick. I would say like huge asterisk with that is what I would love for the takeaway to be is yes, you wanna be quick.

But like putting a piece of washi tape or drawing a little line that you're going to erase after so that all of your writing is straight and like all of your... I never know the fucking vocabulary for lettering. Like all of your stuff is at the... Exactly, yeah, so your baseline is the same. Just take the extra... take the extra time. It's okay. It doesn't make you unprofessional.

Cat (21:18)
Like the baseline.

Yeah. Yes.

what I feel like we've always caveat at that like

it is it is never speed at the sacrifice of quality like it's great to have both but also we've both been doing this for like almost a decade so like that's a skill that we have developed over time and that does that's not to say that

Alex (21:35)
Yeah.

Cat (21:45)
which we literally just talked about drafting. Like we also will draft on occasion or sometimes like there's just like a weirdly shaped item that you can't eyeball because it is weird shapes. that's not to say we never draft. We, it's just not our regular practice because we have been able to develop that skill, that like ability to look at it and center it and like do all of those things. And sometimes

Alex (21:55)
Yeah.

Cat (22:11)
We miss the mark on that too. But sometimes I'll do an item on site and I'm like, whoa. That was, don't know what I did there. And I will grab a new one and make a new one. I don't know what's in everybody else's contracts, which like shameless plug if you have a legal page contract through the one that I co-collaborated with her.

Alex (22:11)
It calls for it. Yeah.

hahahahah

Yeah.

Cat (22:37)
There is a clause in there that says that they, if they're providing the item or you are providing the item, that there will be, there's an error, I think it's errors and omissions clause where there should be, they agree that there will be 20 % additional items available because we are humans and we make errors. So that's in my, ⁓ I put 20. I added it to say 20.

Alex (22:48)
Yeah.

Is it 20 or 10? Mine says 10.

Nope.

like actually 20 % sorry

Cat (23:04)
you

Which like sometimes it's not gonna make sense to do 20, but that's my default is like 20. So I have extra so I could like do those things so PSA like yeah, we say that we don't draft and that we're able to move really quickly. But also PSA like sometimes we do make mistakes, but I don't make that the problem of the person receiving it on the other end.

Alex (23:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and if you notice it's frequent or like a couple, you're like, ⁓ I'm gonna, I'm just gonna tape. Like I'm gonna take that extra 0.2 seconds and grab the tape, put it on there so that I can just whatever. So I think that's a thing too. just like I think let's be more mindful, least. Because then you're making it someone else's work and then now they're like

Cat (23:46)
Yeah.

Alex (23:49)
Now it's on the client to then have to redo stuff and like, that's not cool. And then there was a delay to getting it to the guests because it was a couple of days later.

Cat (23:54)
I.

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like we need to be maybe like a little more discerning about our work because you might, you're probably not going to hear about that from the client. so I feel like we need to be in a constant state of like evaluation of our own work and the experience that we're providing to the person receiving the item, but also our client. I just don't feel like there should ever be a time where we're like,

Okay, well, like, that's good enough. Like, whatever. you know, feel like we got to... We're losing the plot. We're losing the plot a little bit.

Alex (24:26)
Yeah.

There's a, yeah, I think there's a balance. Yeah,

like we're not expecting perfection because I definitely know there's certain artists that are like, must be perfect. And I'm like, love that for you. But now you're only gonna be able to do half as much as for instance, that we would do it at an event because you're sitting there and you're taping and you're graphing and you're measuring and you're da-da-da-da-da. Great, love that for you. And clients will hire that too, depending on the client. again, it goes back to like, who's your client? Like, is it for a fast paced event?

Cat (24:54)
Yeah.

Alex (24:56)
who's the audience? it like intensely luxury people who are expecting fucking Spencerian and this like thing to look incredible? Or is it people who want like more of a modern style and I don't know, whatever. So I think it just kind of.

Cat (25:03)
you

they value output

over the artistry. Because there are a lot of clients that care more about that.

Alex (25:17)
Yeah, but I think it's a balance, so that's kind of my take on that.

Cat (25:21)
Damn. That was tea.

Alex (25:23)
like I needed to get that out, but yeah it's out. just, just like do a little bit better. That's okay. We can work. Let's just practice a little bit more at home. And it's okay to do some drafting if needed. If you know that your work is not gonna look great without drafting, then be drafting and be so honest with your client. You can't do 50 items an hour. Maybe you could do 30 and that's okay. Like I think that's where, yeah.

Cat (25:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah, just manage expectations. Like

be very clear about what it looks like for them. And then the timeline of it, there's no shame in that as long as you're letting them know that's what the experience will look like. And if they're fine with that, great.

Alex (25:47)
I think

Mm-hmm. Yeah, just setting expectations with clients, being transparent. We love that. Client, it's about their client. It's about their experience, the guest experience. So I think that's kind of, it's like sad that the guest couldn't receive it at the time, if that makes sense. Like that the client was like, we're gonna deliver these to you later. So yeah, anyways, okay.

Cat (26:20)
so on a side note, I wanted to talk to you about something that I have been experiencing lately. This entire series is about side notes, but there is something that I experienced lately, which I haven't had it happen in a while, but.

Alex (26:26)
I feel like our entire episode is on a side note. On another side note.

Cat (26:37)
Maybe I have, I know. But they were so overt about it. It just gave me such an ick. So I got an email typical inquiry, like, hey, we're looking for someone to come to do this this time, what's your pricing? I had emailed them back, like, hi, I'm available. this is my pricing. This is all the stuff that's included. Let me know if this works for your vision and your budget. And then they emailed me back. And they asked me,

for twice the amount of time, but then ended the email with, please keep in mind that the client doesn't have a big budget for this.

Alex (27:12)
No, I those situations are so hard. we compromise. But like to double the time.

to not double the price. Like that's a little unhinged.

Cat (27:21)
Well,

yeah, no, so I replied back with something along the lines of like, because it also included a lay time. It was like, we want you to come. We doubled the amount of event time, but also there's four hours in between. it was like,

Hey, like, thanks for letting me know the updated information. Here's your updated pricing that includes the additional hours plus lay time that is requested. I understand the client may not have allocated sufficient budget for this. That's totally fine. Let me know if you want to move forward or not.

A year ago, the emotional pull would have been like, ⁓ I want to book this. Let me discount the rate. And I'm proud.

of like my progress to be like, okay, here's my price. I'm not discount. I'm not automatically discounting it for you. And I don't know if I feel like it was just the way it was worded. Because if they emailed me back and they were just like, we allocated x amount for this budget. Is there any way we could get closer to this number? I don't know. It was just like the phrasing of it that I literally got

Alex (28:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cat (28:23)
such an ick They did end up booking. They didn't book me for the full double rate with lay time. Like I still did the event and we just did the nighttime and I got paid the rate that I asked for.

Alex (28:24)
Yeah, that's like literally. ⁓

I feel like it's a good reminder though that you can compromise but you don't necessarily have to compromise your price. Like you could be like this is what I offer instead

Cat (28:43)
Right.

Alex (28:43)
But my rate isn't changing, that's not something that... it just changes. You took the time and you built up a business to have a specific rate and to just be like, just kidding, like what? I don't know who that works for. Maybe it does work for a lot of other artists. Yeah.

Cat (29:01)
It used to work for me, if we're being honest. It

used to work for me. used to work for me a year ago, definitely two years ago, when I just wasn't as confident in my pricing, when I felt like I needed them the money more It still gave me the ick, but it worked on me. It's just not anymore.

Alex (29:11)
Like confident, yeah.

Yeah, no, I think we like all aspire to get to that, right? Like, no fucks given and this is my rate take it or leave it.

Cat (29:31)
Yeah,

but I think to your point, the compromise doesn't always have to be. It's not a compromise if you're losing out and they're benefiting from it. Like the compromise should be equal parts. Like, okay, I'll meet you at your budget, but it's going to be for less service time. So you're still getting paid what is appropriate for your time.

they're still getting an outcome that they're looking for, but it's less hours or like you said, like maybe you don't have budget for onsite customization, but if you have your guest list, like I can do them maybe in studio, which might be a little bit cheaper than going onsite. So the compromise shouldn't be at your detriment. it should, a compromise is both sides are

Alex (30:12)
Detriment, yeah.

Yeah, I

love that takeaway. so on that note, I feel like that's like a great place to leave it because stand on business.

Cat (30:23)
What a great mini. feel like our stand on business. No,

that was, I feel like we thought we were just going to, yeah, but I feel like there were a lot of little like nuggets in there.

Alex (30:35)
Yeah.

So many nuggets. Wait. Okay. No, I literally, I wanted to start singing the McNuggets song. They're like, McNuggets, McNuggets, what? McNuggets, McNuggets, what? I am so millennial, but I also have so many vocal stims in my fucking brain. I'm so sorry. So many earworms.

Cat (30:38)
let it out, guys. ⁓

And that now do you want to tell everybody where they can find us? We love you so much ⁓ if you hated this episode don't tell us

Alex (30:56)
Hahahaha

Thanks for dealing with us. Thanks for catching up with us.

But do tell us if there's something, if you guys do follow Cat and I on Instagram, on our personal accounts and you're like, I wanna hear more about that. Just tell us and we'll try to incorporate it into these little minis or whatever. But we're so glad that you caught up with us.

Cat (31:22)
that you stay catching up.

Alex (31:24)
Our Instagram is Keeping Up With The Calligs and that's where we post fun memes as well as when episode drops and take your questions and yeah.

Cat (31:36)
And they can find you personally at

Alex (31:38)
yeah,

you could find signs of our lives.

Cat (31:41)
and I am Cat,

no, what am I? I almost said my email. And I am Cat Lauren Calligraphy, Cat with a C. And if you did like this episode, if you wanna rate it five stars, that would be in cred. If not, don't. Okay, love you, bye.

Alex (31:44)
Cat Lauren calligraphy.

Have stars!

Okay, bye! Love you, bye!