How to Maintain Client Relationships as an Event Artist, with Guest Jodi Tellier

Alex and Cat welcomed the so very talented artist, Jodi Tellier to share her not-so-linear journey being in the art world; and her tips on maintaining years-long relationships with her clients, even after pivoting her art and her business.

In the first half of the episode, Jodi stares how she transitioned from drawing and painting to calligraphy and then back to live painting.

Then she shared her insights on how she’s managed to navigate pricing challenges, communicating with clients, and how she’s learned to set boundaries when necessary.

We’re so grateful that after years of following each other that we got to hear more about Jodi’s journey and how she got to where she is today. Save this episode for when you’re ready to be inspired!

Key takeaways:

✨ genuine human connections will always be more important and valuable than being transactional in your relationships

✨ staying true to yourself and your art will bring you so much more joy in your business than if you let others shape your day-to-day and what services you offer

✨ it’s more than possible to sustain a career as a full time artist

Transcript

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Alex (00:10)
Hi everyone and welcome back to Keeping Up With The Calligraphers. This is Alex of Signs For Our Lives and...

Cat (00:16)
of Cat Lauren Calligraphy

Alex (00:18)
And we have a special guest today. Her name is Jodi and actually, okay, I need to admit something out loud. Is it Tellier or Tellier?

Cat (00:21)
Yeah.

Jodi (00:27)
Oh my god,

Alex (00:32)
Okay,

I was like, well, she's like in Canada, she's French.

Cat (00:35)
cultured

girlies.

Jodi (00:37)
Yeah, my little French last name and my super English first name. Yeah, it's Tellier. And most people say Teller. So actually, even your second pronunciation was better than what most people do. So, You guys are so French. I love it.

Alex (00:48)
Wow. my god. Honored. Blessed. Amazing.

Okay, well amazing. We're so excited to have you here. I know I've been following you. I actually was like, my god, it's been like almost nine years. I think I've been following you. Which is insane. Like I know you've been following

Jodi (01:03)
That's amazing, thanks. I'm sure I've been

following both of you the same amount of time. It's actually crazy, I feel like with this 2016 trend that's happening, it's making me realize that I feel like it's almost everyone's 10 year anniversary and it's so cute. I love it. Yeah. ⁓

Cat (01:19)
Yeah

Alex (01:22)
So cute. Incredible.

I want you to kind of like share your lore, share what you do now, share how you got here because speaking of like the 10 years, I know you've been doing it for longer than that, but that's just how long we've known you. So tell us, tell us.

Jodi (01:38)
Yeah, well yeah,

yes, I will. Hey, my lore. All right. I have a horrible memory, so hopefully I can remember my own life. see. But yeah, it's been basically 10 years that I've been doing this business. It's been like, I think 2016 August was when I quit my job. So I started, I did calligraphy for the first time in 2015. But yeah, I'll go back even further if you'd like.

Alex (01:46)
you

Cat (02:03)
you

Jodi (02:04)
But yeah, I've always, to go back to my lore, I've always been someone who loved to draw and paint and I always did.

art classes as a kid, like after school, and I'm very lucky to have parents who were very supportive of me being artsy and, you know, like signed me up for art classes. I started taking like these little like every Tuesday painting classes in this cute little art studio in the like a, it's called Beaurepaire Village near where my parents live and the school is called La Pellette Art School. And it's just this really cute little place. I think it's still there.

And yes, I would go every Tuesday after school from when I was nine until I finished high school. So it was just really lucky to have always been able to like experiment. Like the teacher there would have us mostly do watercolor, but we'd also do, you know, pastels and different kinds of materials to get like charcoal, like all kinds of different things like that. And we would do different subjects. And yeah, so I always had that.

I studied at college, did visual arts. Actually, I started in illustration and design and then I dropped out and switched into visual arts because illustration and design was this like super hardcore crazy program where you have like a million classes and I just like couldn't, I couldn't deal with it. That's like the beginning. That's like my, also my origin story of like burning out repeatedly. I was like, like, was literally 20 years ago and I was just like, I can't handle this.

Alex (03:17)
I don't know what that is, what?

Jodi (03:23)
⁓ So I switched into visual arts, it was much easier. But I ended up, because I switched programs, I was in SESHA for three years. And then I got, I was like tired of school, so I took a year off. And I tried to like become an artist, like I would like, I was working at Blockbuster and... To give everyone an idea of my age, but...

Cat (03:40)
Hello.

Jodi (03:45)
Yeah, I was working at Blockbuster and like making just painting like outside of that and like I at the time, you know, I was I guess 20 or maybe yeah, it was 2008. I can't 21, 20, 19. I don't know. Who knows? I don't know. And yeah, so I just, you know, it's a lot more like social and like had a bunch of artsy friends and we would put on art shows together at like pubs and

Cat (03:57)
It's okay, we can do the math.

Alex (04:00)
Time, ⁓

Jodi (04:11)
Um, you know, I like made no money. was like, I'd be like, does anyone want a painting for $10? Like, you know, it was very that and, uh, but it was fun. And just before Instagram, like, I think I had a MySpace for my art. Um, yeah.

Alex (04:26)
is officially a millennial only podcast.

Cat (04:28)
You're hitting me with like all the nostalgia. I'm like, ⁓ all the things that make me feel the feels ⁓

Jodi (04:32)
Yes! I know, I know. MySpace,

like, oh my god, anyway, was, Oh god, wish I, I wish I...

Alex (04:38)
What do you now

from $10 paintings to a shit thriving business owner? Okay, wait, so walk us through like how you got from there to are you sorry you're still going keep going

Jodi (04:41)
I Yeah, I know. I kind of...

No, no,

no, it's okay. It's okay. It's funny. It's like I literally forgotten about these things and then I talk about them and I'm like, oh my God, has things have changed. Um, but yeah, so I, and then I worked as a makeup artist for a little while because the whole, was not working out the art selling for $10. So, um, that was just, I was like, okay, I gotta do something real. So I did go back to school. I worked as a makeup artist. Um, I dropped out of university after a year cause I had really horrible anxiety and I did not.

realize that I had anxiety at the time. And I was studying painting and drawing and we would have to do these critiques that like, you know, you put you do your art and then you have everyone puts it on the wall and you talk about it. And I did like I couldn't deal with it. Like it was just way too stressful for me. Which is so so sad to think of it now because now it doesn't bother me at all. Like now I'm back in school and I do have critiques and I'm just like, this is totally fine. Like I don't know why I was so freaked out. But like

21 year old me could not handle it. To the point that I even, ended up, I had a drawing class my first year that I actually really loved. I loved the teacher, I loved the class, I learned so much. But I, and I ended up failing the class because I didn't, I finished my final project, I went to school, I took the metro from my apartment, I got out of the metro and I walked out and I was holding my art project and I was like, I can't do it. Like I literally can't.

go to the critique. Like I just cannot physically do it. So I just went, I just got back on the metro when I went home. I know it's so sad. And I didn't even like email my teacher and say like, I had an anxiety attack and I can't come. I just, cause it's like, you know, it was just so much. This is like what 2010 and there was so much less like conversation and awareness around mental health that like, I literally didn't even know that's what it was. And I didn't feel like I could ask anyone or talk to anyone or reach out to anyone. So it was like,

So I just dropped out, I failed that class, and I think I had passed two of my other classes, so I had like 12 credits, and I was like, goodbye, like I'm done. So anyway, this is such a long story. all that to say, yeah.

Alex (06:53)
totally love it. It's important though, because nobody's just a linear And I think that's important.

You didn't just get out of school, go to art school, become a professional artist. I think it's important to... Yeah!

Jodi (07:03)
No, yeah, it's been a winding road, exactly. yeah,

so then I was working as a makeup artist for a few years, then finally I got a job as a graphic designer. And I was like, was like decently fine for a while, but I started to gradually really detest that job. Like, I was just like, I started like, I work at a desk and I have a salary and this is great. And then over time, I don't know what happened. I just was like, actually, I hate this. I don't know what I'm doing.

I felt like I was faking it, moving a mouse around on Illustrator and anyway. So I, I don't know, randomly, very much like an acquaintance, like a friend of a friend I was with at some kind of dinner out one night and she was like, I'm taking a calligraphy class and I'm looking for someone to come with me because I don't want to go alone and I was like, I'll do a calligraphy class. I don't even know what that is, but I'll come with you. So I signed up for it.

And I took this class with ⁓ Joy Denine, who is now my good friend and colleague. And it was a copper plate calligraphy class. And it was so cute. It was in the plateau, which is like the quintessential Montreal neighborhood. If you guys ever come to Montreal, we'll go to the plateau. It's like the cutest. And so I took that class. And then I just like totally fell in love with calligraphy. And it really like restored my, like, I don't know, like...

Alex (08:10)
On the

Jodi (08:18)
artistic creative like spark because I had just I had kind of stopped painting and drawing for a few years actually like that's kind of a key part I always forget that I there was a period of time where I would really not even pick up a sketchbook or not even paint anything because I was just sort of like I don't know not in the best place not feeling super creative so I took that class and then it just totally like I mean really changed my life in the end which is so crazy and that was in like fall 2015

Alex (08:40)
Yeah.

Jodi (08:44)
And then I just was like practicing calligraphy and doing calligraphy like crazy into 2016 and started doing it for like friends and weddings and all that stuff gradually. And then, sorry, this is the longest lore story ever. was thinking at the time, I'm gonna cut to the chase. Like, I started doing it for work. It sort of picked up not.

Cat (08:59)
Yeah.

Jodi (09:06)
really enough to have actually quit my job, but like I quit my job anyway, because I hated it and was just like, I had savings. I was like, I'll be fine. And then slowly over time, I still really enjoyed calligraphy, but I like fell back in love with art. That was around the time that I did take those trips to Italy and France and stuff like that. Finally, you know, finally could do that in my life. It's always what I wanted to do is travel more and yeah. And then so started falling back in love with art and painting and like really all as like a

tangent from calligraphy. once I started doing my events and things, like I would be doing calligraphy on site, but I would always naturally end up drawing and adding like a drawing element to it. so, yeah, slowly, slowly now I've kind of come full circle and pivoted back into art. So there's the story, but that's longer than I meant to go on for it. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex (09:49)
Yeah.

Cat (09:54)
Okay.

Alex (09:55)
gonna

say though, like we, like I remember, I'm assuming Cat the same, so Cat, me if it's different, but I feel like when we started following you, was mostly just calligraphy and you were also doing events and I know you were primarily doing weddings and I feel like you were always really good about like figuring out what wasn't serving you anymore. Like I remember you like making this super long post about even just like wedding signage, like the big mirrors. You're like, I'm not doing mirrors anymore. This is killing my body and I remember being like, damn, okay.

Cat (10:03)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (10:23)
She knows how to set a boundary, awesome. ⁓ So I think that's been great to see that journey ⁓ Cat I don't know, what's your experience of seeing Jodi? Because I feel like that's important to share our perspective too for listeners who, yeah.

Jodi (10:23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Cat (10:38)
Yeah, I know.

Jodi (10:39)
Yeah.

Cat (10:40)
I wonder when I feel like I started maybe following you more around like when you guys launched luxury lettering. I think I found you because I was following Jo and then maybe she was doing her podcast and then Syl had sell on which like led me to luxury lettering. Right. And then I think that's when I like entered your sphere. I don't even recall when that was. I was I was probably like 20, 19.

Jodi (11:01)
Yeah. ⁓

Yeah, yeah, we, yes, yeah, we put out luxury lettering in 2019, which is so crazy. Yes, such a.

Cat (11:05)
2018, 2019, when did you make that?

Okay.

So then that wasn't a been when I entered your sphere. So I feel like maybe I missed like the wedding, like the tail end of wedding. And I just came in at like the live events piece. But I was like, they're so intelligent and they're so talented. And then I signed up for like so many of your art classes and like all the other things that you guys were doing with someday art co club club club. Okay.

Alex (11:24)
Yeah.

Jodi (11:27)
Bye.

See you.

Thank you. Yeah, well, yeah, well,

my business name is...

Cat (11:40)
you were co yeah and then club so

i feel like i signed up i don't know i gave you so much of my money and truly it was like not

Jodi (11:47)
I love you, thank you.

Cat (11:49)
I was like, they deserve more. I need more things. I tried really hard to be great at art and I just need so much more practice. I have not put in the like 10,000 hours or whatever it is that you're supposed to like, but I do. take all your art courses and I try really hard.

Jodi (11:51)
Yeah.

Well, you're busy, girl.

I'm so proud of you and there's still lots of time. So don't even stress. I love that. Thank you for saying that. But yeah, art is such like a lifelong journey. And like, I think people can pick it up at any time and put it down and then pick it back up. Like there's no timeline for that kind of thing, you know? So that's so nice. I really appreciate both of your support so much. That really means a lot to me. It's so nice to like...

Cat (12:13)
I rewatch them all the time.

Jodi (12:32)
talk to people who have like, you I've known for such a long time and who have seen these different iterations, because it's true, I there have been lot of iterations of things, and it's just great to have that feedback. Thank you.

Alex (12:43)
Yeah, I mean that was like part

of what I think you and I were chatting about, like DMing about is just like how you've pivoted from like you were primarily doing calligraphy and now you don't. I mean, I'm sure you calligraphy at some point, but like I feel like now you don't do calligraphy at all. So.

Jodi (12:47)
Yeah.

It's pretty great.

Like, I'll do it. I mean, people still hire me sometimes for calligraphy events. And I like occasionally a place card gig for like a client that I work with all the time or something like that. But yeah, very, very few and far between these days, really, I have managed to pivot into pretty much all painting and sketching and stuff, which is really fun. Actually funny story about doing like live sketching and portraits and stuff. I had wanted to do that for like

Alex (13:04)
Mm-hmm.

Jodi (13:26)
quite a while. Like I started, I think my first live event I ever did was like 2017. And it was always calligraphy and then engraving and you know, that kind of thing. And then I had really been starting to feel more like called to doing like painting and drawing and everything. And like around when we launched, like Re-Learning 101, I was like, it was very much calligraphy and lettering focus, but I was starting already on site to like draw and that kind of thing more often. And I was, I really wanted to start doing portraits.

And so at the beginning of 2020, like January, February, I was like, sketch, I was filling sketchbooks with portraits and like fashion sketches. And I was like, this is the year I'm going to launch live sketching and live illustration. And then COVID happened and just thwarted my plans. Every event was canceled and it took so long for events to come back here. Like our lockdowns were so intense and so like.

Anyway, it lasted a really long time here. So I think I finally, I think I actually only ended up doing live sketching and live illustration in 2022. It was like, there was like a full two years before, in between like my intention of like starting that and then finally having the opportunity to do it, which was through Holts, which is like my biggest, longest running client, I would say.

randomly was like for women's day they were like do you ever draw faces and I was like yes I have been dying to draw faces please let me yes finally someone has asked me anyway so that was like such a long time coming and ⁓ thank god that happened but yeah so then that kind of finally gave me the ability and the and the momentum to shift and like start showing that side of my art more but it was such a long journey to get there

Cat (14:51)
Draw your face!

Jodi (15:12)
Yeah.

Cat (15:13)
we're patient with it, whether intentionally or unintentionally, and then it just manifested on its own with a long-term client, which is always amazing too. And that, honestly, was a perfect segue, because we wanted to talk about building those client relationships and how you maintain them over such a long period of time, because that's something I know I've admired about you.

Jodi (15:16)
Yeah.

Alex (15:33)
⁓ What are like some other ways that maybe you have some like new relationships or keep these people coming even when you've fully pivoted from calligraphy to portraits? Like what...

Jodi (15:34)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, like to just get into like really nitty gritty practical stuff. ⁓ And it's like, because again, when I was thinking when you asked me to come on here and talk about this, I was like, what do I do? I don't know what I do. So I've been reflecting on it. And I think truly part of it is luck. I think and part of it is remembering that the

Alex (15:52)
Mm-hmm.

Jodi (16:07)
the brands or the clients that are hiring you, there's always the humans behind it. And I do tend to, and I think just over the years it was not even necessarily intentional, but I've become sort of very friendly with the humans that hire me. And I think that's just a personality thing. I think I do kind of have anxiety and I'm sort of an extroverted introvert and I tend to like...

overcompensate a little bit for that by being like really friendly and like I think thankfully that's like worked out so that they tend to like me and like want to have me back like I think that's just sort of like I I don't know I think just being you know easy easy to work with doesn't have to be you know having no boundaries and like doing whatever they want like I still very much assert myself and like what's realistic while also being warm and friendly and

Like, yeah, I guess I don't want to be too necessarily like casual with people. Like I still have certain boundaries and things, but I am on like texting and Instagram terms with a lot of my clients. So I think that just kind of comes with time, like when people have had you back a few times. But it's also a really useful tool. Even though I don't know, I think maybe some people might feel weird about like following their clients on Instagram or something, but I, I

tend to, like, you know, especially with Holt's, like that's for people in America or other places in the world, it's Holt Renfrew is like our big, like luxury department store here. And we have one in Montreal, it's like, kind of the last luxury department store. Like we had a lot of stores have closed over the last few years, and they're, you know, they're going strong and they

It's here, it's called Holt Renfrew Ogilvie because we had this store called Ogilvie in Montreal. It really this really iconic, like heritage brand luxury store that Holt Renfrew ended up buying. And then like as like an homage to it, they call their store Holt Renfrew Ogilvie. And they like renovated it and turned it into this new version of Holt's like, I guess in 2019, it really, they say it like officially opened in 2020, but I was working there when it was like half finished.

in 2019. And I think I've been working with them since before they moved to that storage was 2018. So it's like, I can't do math. Is that seven or eight? Yeah, it'll be eight years this year, which is crazy. So and like they have gone through different like, they're at the initially there was like a little bit of turnover with the role of the roles in the marketing department. And that's like, and another reason like, I don't want you to be all like, necessarily thinking

Cat (18:20)
That's a long time, that's like eight years.

Jodi (18:38)
to follow people and befriend people because you want to know where their career is going. But at the same time, if you're following the person who hires you on Instagram and you see that they've changed jobs and you're like, no, the person who's hiring me has changed jobs. need you to reach out and say, hey, don't forget about me. Because that's happened to me a lot. And I think especially in the beauty industry, there can be kind of high turnover with people in marketing. Yes.

Alex (18:50)
It's there.

Cat (19:02)
transitions between all the different brands

and stuff.

Jodi (19:04)
Yeah,

so if you're on like friend terms with people and again not to be like on friend terms with people just to use them for like the contact information and work and everything but I think if you can be like aware of those kinds of changes then it helps you a lot to like retain your clients like then that's just like a really nitty-gritty particular like you know thing because like it's happened to me plenty of times where I didn't have I wasn't that close with people and I didn't know when they were leaving and then they leave and then I'm like

Alex (19:23)
Yeah.

Jodi (19:32)
I don't know if they still have my contact information or what and then I don't end up getting hired again just purely from like a lack of contact with whoever takes the role, you know, so luckily with Holts yeah.

Alex (19:41)
No, think that's a great

point because I've had the same situation where I'm like, I worked with brands for years, the person left and you're kind of like, crap, like, who do I contact now? Or like, they're not on great terms with whoever they left. And you're like, great. ⁓

Jodi (19:56)
Yeah,

yeah, you never know what the the tea is. yeah, I mean, that came with like, you know, years of work of knowing them. And like, I wouldn't follow people necessarily right away. But once I had like a relationship, then we would like follow each other on Instagram. And now I'm like with Holts, like, we'll obviously send professional emails and that kind of thing. But like, when an event comes up, like usually

someone from the team will just text me and be like, can you just save this date or like, are you free this day or whatever. And ⁓ like, we're kind of on like texting terms in the sense that like, we both acknowledge this is not how we're confirming things, but we're friendly enough with each other that we can like text and figure out dates and then send a real email with like a real summary and a real invoice or whatever. So I think just being like open to like having real friendships with the people that are hiring you and like really just

embracing that and being curious about them genuinely. I'm bad with names, but I really try to write people's names down as soon as I get to, even if it's just the people that are, let's say it's a retail event, the people that don't work at the store. It took me a long time to remember people's names. Now I'm really trying to make a commitment when I work somewhere new to remember them and get to know them.

you know, in a genuine way because it's like, then you also get a sense for whether you like working at that place or with these people. Because another thing that I mean, and it comes with like the privilege of knowing that work will continue to come in, but I, like, I'm not going to want to work at a place that I wasn't like treated well, and they're not going to want to work with me necessarily if we don't have like a relationship, if that makes any sense. So yeah, I think just

remembering the human side of things and fostering good relationships with your clients and treating them just like people that you would chat with and be friends with and follow. one of the guys who works in marketing at Holtz just read Wuthering Heights and he posted about it in his stories and I was like, oh my God, we have to talk. We have to have a whole literary review of Wuthering Heights together and it was great. So yeah, I don't know.

Alex (22:01)
Yeah,

no, I think that's really important. like, that's, would say also how I built my business and how Cat I feel like is building her business is like, like through, I mean, networking is not the term, but like kind of networking and like being connected. ⁓

all the time like through these people because you do want to know what's going on in their life. You do want to comment on what's going on, not just about business. That being said, not to bring it back to business, but like when you, I know you've like posted about increasing your rates and stuff like that. I know you've tried to get people's pricing across the country and multiple countries like internationally and that's kind of been a, that was a struggle. But like when you have increased your rates, like how do you kind of,

Jodi (22:25)
Yeah.

Alex (22:45)
like still maintain that relationship because while you might still have that with the client at the end of the day, sometimes they just don't have budget. Like I have clients where I walk in like for dinner or something and they'll be like, my God, we're so happy to see you do that. But like they literally can't hire me anymore because they don't have the budget. So what do you do in those situations?

Jodi (23:00)
Yeah. Yeah, I know. That is so sad

when that happens. Like it is. Yeah, it is really sad. I think for some clients, it depends like for for certain ones that have hired me like over and over and over again for years and years, I will like, I'll like ease them into a price increase. So like, let's say like the next time that they contact me and I know that I'm raising my rates like

I will tell them straight up, like, this is my new rate for all my new clients for you guys, because I love you. I will actually say that because I'm like that unhinged and like that friendly with them. I'll be like, because I love you guys and you're giving me so much work or whatever. I'm going to keep it like somewhere in between, you know, like not the old rate, not quite the new rate. Like, and I'll call it like a preferred client rate. And then I'll keep them at that for like,

six months or so and then I'll be like, okay, now I've got to raise it up to be like on the same as everyone else or there or some of them will be perpetually, you know, $25 an hour behind or something like that. Like I'll do like, I'm not afraid to, especially if I'm raising my rates to a place where I'm like really comfortable with the, you know, the amount of money and it's like a much, you know, it's a, it's a much needed like increase, but also there's wiggle room to give a little like, I wouldn't call it necessarily giving a discount, but just giving like a, little bit of a break to the people that have been more loyal.

And I'll always put that on the bill, like, ⁓ you know, the full rate. Yeah. So that they know that they're getting a little treat, the full rate, and then a discount, on as a line item of like preferred client, like this rate for X amount of time. So it's like a little just a way of like easing them into it, showing my loyalty to them.

Alex (24:27)
Smart.

Jodi (24:45)
for their loyalty, know, just like, know times are tough and things are, you know, this will be the rate eventually, but not quick yet. So I, yeah, I tend to ease it in. don't feel the need to like, if when I like, I always say I'm raising my rates for this year, I'm not going to necessarily like announce it to everybody that I, I just, wait until when they're ready to hire me, then it's like, okay, well, this is the new rate. Yeah. And then just across the board, if ever it's new clients, then that's just, I don't say anything that's like, this is the rate.

But yeah, for repeat clients, will sort of be a little bit more gentle about it. But then it does happen that even if they can't afford the in-between one, then I just sort of wait until they can and hopefully they do. I have a few clients like that who like, they won't hire me very often because they can't, it's not in the budget anymore, but like they will.

maybe once a year instead of it would have been three times a year and it'll be for like four hours instead of five or six. know, it's sort of, you know, and you just, you can't compromise too much. I like to leave a little bit of room for compromising, especially for people who have hired me for seven, eight years. I mean, that's like, you know, really I'd rather have, you know, someone who's gonna hire me 10 times a year.

Like you kind of have to look at it as like how much are they, like how much is it worth giving? Yes, exactly. Like, am I gonna raise my rates so much if they can't afford to have me this many times and then like losing like what it amounts to over the course of a year? You know, it's sort of like you have to really look at the big picture. Yeah, so it's never easy. Nothing with pricing is ever like easy. And so it's like the hardest and worst thing and.

Alex (26:07)
Zoom out. ⁓

Jodi (26:16)
You know, we're also emotionally attached to it and I try to remove the emotion, but it's difficult. Especially when you really love a client. Like there are a few that I'm really very attached to. So, yeah.

Cat (26:27)
Sure. But I

think it goes back to what you were saying with that like, Brene Brown code is like the clarity is kindness. So even if they can't afford you for the same volume that maybe they were doing before, like, you have built such a strong relationship that they're like, okay, yes, we'll make the adjustment on our end because we still want to work with you, which again, may not, you know, that might be a bummer because we're going down from, you know, five events a year now to three or something like that.

Jodi (26:32)
Yeah.

You're welcome.

Cat (26:54)
that's like the homework of also still knowing that you have a good relationship is because they're still finding ways to fit you in the budget and I feel like that's like

That's where you can bring in your own unique personality and how you like create your own relationships with other people. It's not a template that someone is gonna send you like how they respond to their clients or like it's not gonna be this perfect textbook of like this is how you build a successful client relationship, right? Like it really is your own little like je ne se quoi that you like bring to the relationship and then like your communication thereafter, you know.

Jodi (27:24)
you

Yeah, no, totally. And I think that's the thing is like, there's no formula, there's no like step by step, like answer to retaining clients for this long. I think it's really just like finding common ground with them, delivering the kind of work that they're gonna... ⁓

their clients, they see the reaction in their clients that like people love it and just, you know, having that high quality work too, which I mean, mine has not always been. I'm sure if I went back to like the first things I did at Holtz, would be a little like, but at the time, you know, for 2018, it was probably, um, decent, you know, but it's, think having, if I could like sum it up, I would just say like, always remembering like the humanity and the, and the human element of, of where you're being hired, you know,

Cat (28:03)
Yeah.

Jodi (28:13)
trying to create genuine relationships. Because that makes it more fun for you too. I love to go, one of my favorite clients is David Yermann. I'm sure you guys see what I post about them. I'm always like, my baby angels, they're just so cute, I just love them. And they treat me so nice. And I get there and they've got coffee and chocolate for me. And it's just like, I love them so much. And it's just that kind of gig I just look forward to.

Alex (28:24)
you

I'm cool.

Jodi (28:37)
so much because it's like I get to see my friends and it's like you can actually turn any event into that you know with just a little bit of effort and it makes it just I don't know we already have a really fun great job we get to create and do art but like to add in like a social element like it's it's fun I think if you kind of look at it like that.

Cat (28:56)
Yeah,

we're in the business of connection.

Jodi (28:59)
Yes, exactly. And

Alex (29:00)
Yeah.

Jodi (29:01)
it's like not just about the people receiving it, it's about the people that are like on your team when you're there. And it's like, yeah, so it's so special to have those kinds of relationships. So I feel like I, yeah.

Cat (29:06)
Yeah.

So, okay, that was super helpful to hear though how you handle like a part of the pricing switch. Did you have any type of communication with your repeat clients when you kind of made that shift from more calligraphy focused to more like portrait and sketching focused? Like, were they just seeing your portfolio? Good Lord. Your portfolio? And they were like, oh yes, like we would love to do that now. Or was there any of your existing clients that you were like, hey, like let's do this instead. Like I'm always curious when

Jodi (29:28)
you

you

Cat (29:39)
I see people pivot like that.

Jodi (29:40)
Yeah, was sort of a gradual process and I was very nervous about it, especially with Holtz because Holtz would always hire me to do engraving in the beauty department specifically and people do go crazy for it as you know. So I was nervous about that. But I started to really, like the reason that I stopped engraving and not to like crap on engraving, but for me it was just...

Alex (30:05)
Crap on the thing we do the most Jodie, go for it.

Jodi (30:07)
I'm sorry.

I just couldn't. I don't want to yell at anyone's yell. But for me, it's kind of like the graphic design job. I just started to hate it. I was just like, I actually hate this. Every time I do an engraving event, I would dread it. I was like, can't. I don't want to. And physically, I found it hard on me. Physically, my eyes, I was like, I want to wear a mask and goggles and I want to be protected, but I don't want to look

Cat (30:09)
She was yucking our yum

Jodi (30:34)
not cute and like, just, don't know, just everything about it. was like, ah. So I gradually and like every time I would be at Holtz, inevitably it would be like the personal shoppers would come and be like, we have a client who wants to order like 30 Chanel mirrors and can you do that on top of this? And you that. So I was like, there's no way that they're ever going to be okay with me not doing this anymore. I'm going to lose this contract. They're going to go with someone who paints and engraves and this is not going to but at that point, I mean, I did the full pivot, I would say in 2024, late 2023.

into 2024, I would say. So I'd already been working with them for like, I can't do math five years. Yeah. Thank you guys. Yeah. Well, I you know, I was like, I would just be devastated if this if I lost them and everything. So I was very nervous. And it took me a long time to like work up the courage to tell them I didn't want to engrave anymore. And so I but I slowly just started like, I think I just

Cat (31:08)
six years yeah we'll call it five with covid

Jodi (31:28)
Every time I was there, would just focus, I would talk the clients into painting more so, like there's the actual in the store clients and I would take pictures of it and send it to them more so than the engraving and then... Yeah, so they were just painting, they just want me to paint for them. So...

Alex (31:39)
I don't even want engraving at all.

So I literally just

did this with a client, opposite, they wanted me to paint and I was like, but engraving is so much more elevated looking.

Jodi (31:49)
Yeah. I'm leaving.

Cat (31:53)
you

Jodi (31:54)
Yes, well listen if you can sell it that's that's what matters but I So I ⁓ yeah, so I was doing that and then I can't really remember how it unfolded I think I gave them a heads up. It was like maybe fall 2024 I was like just so you know In the new year or maybe it was maybe it was for the holidays I can't remember but I told I like like confessed to them like I don't

Alex (31:57)
No.

I'm burning my engraving

machine.

Jodi (32:17)
Yes, I was like, I'm

sorry. I actually fully gave it away because I didn't even want to give myself the option. I was like, I can't even give the option because I'll say yes. I can't. I don't know. Eventually I told them and they were just like fine with it and continue to hire me. And like I have in the past have been occasionally unable to do a gig like I was supposed to do engraving for a beauty night.

Alex (32:24)
Wow.

Incredible.

Jodi (32:42)
like the week after Teddy passed away and I emailed them and was like, I cannot leave my bed. Like I cannot be out in the world right now. So I, and I referred them to Erin to do the job, Erin Nielsen, Nielsen letters. So, and she did the gig and like, I think in the past also for like one of those times where they were like 30 Chanel mirrors, I was like, no, Joy, here's Joy. So I referred them to both Erin and Joy in the past. so I think now they have their

Alex (33:04)
No.

Shout out to Erin,

enjoy.

Jodi (33:09)
Yeah, they shout

out. So they, I think they have two engravers who are like ready that they can, when they want engraving, they can go to them. And then I'm just very fortunate that they've kept me on as like, always like the painter and like, very given me lots of really consistent work, even still, but I was very scared that that was not gonna be the case. And I think at a certain point, maybe that year, like I wish I could remember exactly what I did, but I do think that I sent

like professional, know, I sent an email at one point to like my favorite clients. like my diptych, my David Yeurman holds like a few other favorites just to be like, heads up, I'm really shifting my focus to painting. And I would love to, like, you know, to paint more for you or to paint because a diptych I think the first job I actually did for them was painting on boxes, but they have hired they hire me for calligraphy.

⁓ you know on cards and stuff like that but like for them i was like you know you've already seen me paint but i want to paint more i don't know so yeah it was definitely a very like i had a lot of fear and anxiety around it and then it just was totally fine

Alex (34:09)
Yeah, well, I'm sure that's

so helpful to like going back to how you were able to refer things that like you didn't want to do. Like if that client was like adamant about painting, I was so ready to give it to someone else who would be a way better fit because like I'm not I'm I don't have those skills and I can do it very flat and it will have a certain look but it wasn't the look that I feel felt like they wanted. So

Jodi (34:16)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Alex (34:32)
Yeah, if was like, the client is adamant about a certain thing, then like have people in your back pocket that you can be like, here you go, here's this other person who can deliver exactly what you need. And the client remembers that and also the artist remembers that and then refer you the things that you're good at. And I feel like it's just this nice, cute little karmic energetic vibe.

Jodi (34:39)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Exactly. Exactly.

It's like, think there's, know, we all like, sometimes it's very easy to fall into like a trap of like, feeling very like protective of like your clients and like fear about losing someone or whatever. But it's also like, it should never be at the detriment of your own, you know, enjoyment of the job and like

you have to be true to yourself. And like it just was no longer true to me to be engraving. And it like, it doesn't have to be me. It doesn't have to be me every single time. And it was like, it's like, if you love something, let it go. Like, I don't know, like that kind of feeling. And if it's meant to be, they'll come back. Like such a cheesy, like the most cheesy, horrible expression I could use. But like, I felt like that withholds. was like, if they still, if they love me, they'll come back. And then, and they have. So it's like, it's fine. And if they hadn't, then, you know, I would, I'm sure I would find some other

Cat (35:24)
Yeah.

Jodi (35:41)
some other way to replace that. There's always gonna be new opportunities, but it's also really great to be able to have a client that loyal that long term. And I'm just very lucky that that's worked out. Yeah.

Cat (35:53)
And I feel

like it goes back to like the relationship of all of this. Like, the point of doing that is that your relationship is not just transactional, like you genuinely care because you've built a connection with these clients. And so it is in their best interest and your best interest to refer that out and to refer to someone that can fulfill the need that is going to like, you know, them and their expectation that fits in with that, you know, so it goes back to the whole relationship piece.

making sure that you're still serving them well, even like in a pivot or a referral.

Jodi (36:28)
Yeah, for sure. No, I know. And it's like back to the relationship thing and it can and should be really organic. it's not something I would ever force. I've had other clients where it's been a great event, but there isn't that relationship. doesn't have to continue. You know what I mean? I think Alex, you had asked me in like a little prep.

Cat (36:50)
Yeah.

Jodi (36:54)
questions, which thank you for sending me. I can't get ready. something like, is there anything that like a red flag or was it? Yeah. Yeah, that's like another thing like to like, kind of on the other side of the relationship thing. I think having really trusting your gut instinct and and being able to say no. And again, that comes from a place of privilege of like knowing that more work will come and like

Cat (36:56)
Hahaha

Alex (37:01)
when the client's not a good fit or it's time to let go.

Jodi (37:20)
feeling comfortable, like we don't always feel like we can say no to things, but like when you are comfortable enough that you can say no to things, I say no to a lot of things when I get a bad feeling. Like I really, I think I'm a more like very intuitive person and not necessarily everyone can sense the red flags. I can sniff out a red flag very easily.

Alex (37:39)
I would have asked you if

you were a cancer and you're not. You're a Virgo, right? It's so crazy to me.

Jodi (37:43)
you sure go but I'm like the least Virgo Virgo I'm a I'm a Pisces moon.

Yeah, I'm a Pisces moon and I just identify as a Pisces. So but yeah, like but yeah, I think just like being really unafraid when as long as you're in the position to do so to say no, if you have a bad feeling is like huge. Because just avoiding the situations from the get go because I have had those times to where I have ignored my gut feeling very rarely but it has happened and it's like

Alex (37:50)
Mm-hmm. That also makes a lot of sense.

Jodi (38:10)
It's not, it's never, it always works out exactly as you think it's going to, you know? Yeah. Yes.

Alex (38:13)
Yeah, anxiety inducing for sure. Can relate. Yeah.

So, okay, you, I feel like have gifted us over the years with so many lessons. Like I know through your Instagram stories and our interactions and just like seeing you operate has just been like, you're just so professional about things. I even though like you always bring the humanity to it. And I just feel like you have this just like wisdom about you that I just love.

And Cat has taken the luxury lettering. But I would love if you could share a little bit more. You have something coming up with you and Sylvia, who was also on our pod. Yay, we have the both of you. I feel like this is awesome. ⁓

Jodi (38:44)
I'm

Yay! We could come on together another time maybe, but yeah.

Yeah, so we are working on like a second level of luxury lettering 101, tentatively called luxury lettering 201. So, yeah.

Alex (39:06)
Okay, so who is it for, what's

included, when can we sign up?

Jodi (39:11)
Oh, is there all very good questions in

the midst of, well, we know who it's for. It's for, it's for like event artists who are already working in events. Basically, like Luxury Lettering 101 was like our, as it says, 101 for people who want to get into doing live events, whether it's calligraphy focused, but then, or engraving. I don't have anything in Luxury Lettering 101 about painting or sketching or anything, but I do plan on having that in the 201. So.

201 is going to be more for artists who are already working in events. And we want to talk about how to, I guess, of elevate or like take things to the next level in a very, like in a very like non hustle culturey way as we do because yeah, we all know that I burn out repeatedly and I'm like, I mean, listen, we don't and like I think that that is it's obviously very common in our

Cat (39:59)
Sam.

Jodi (40:05)
industry and we I mean, I'm going into this year with the goal of not burning out and I want that for our prospective students as well. Like we're gonna approach things in a very like, I don't know how to how to build something that's sustainable for you specifically and like not necessarily subscribing to the idea of success that like is usually sold and you know, I think just we want it to be really exploratory really like non hierarchical.

hierarchical? I'm not sure of the word. But you know, similar to when we did luxury lettering holiday accelerator where we did like group calls and we would, people would share experiences and that I would love for there to be an element of that. We don't have everything like hammered out exactly how it's going to present, but basically it's a way of like introducing the changes in the industry in a really kind of ⁓ collaborative way and we want to

Like it's going to be teaching, it's going to be part teaching and it's going to be part, like sharing just experiences. Like Sil has done so many cool new types of events that she's really excited to share about. Like, I don't know if the industry has just changed so much since 2019 and since luxury lettering one. So it's like, yeah, we just want to like reflect that, like the bedazzling of it all the like, you know, doing the Chinese not workshops. Like, yeah, she has, yeah, there's so many different.

opportunities to like expand on doing live events that we want to really touch on like kind of all of them in their own way. We also want to talk a lot about like multi-artist events, you know, just like working in a more sustainable way. There's we have such a huge brain dump document with all the things that we want to talk about, we have to organize it. But yeah, I think we had we had our like original luxury lettering 101 students in mind who like we've just seen like

do so much amazing work over the last like almost seven years and thinking of them and thinking of like how we can encourage them even further basically. it's yeah, there's and I don't know when it's gonna be exactly. I feel so bad. We posted that little teaser Instagram and then ghosted everyone for a week, but we're gonna get back on there.

Cat (42:06)
I was dropping a course literally a year ago. Sorry.

Alex (42:09)
Ha!

Jodi (42:10)
I love it. I'm ready for it. Is it about traveling? Is it about how to travel more? Because I want to learn that.

Cat (42:16)
It's that was supposed to be in there. I don't know. I don't I also had a very large brain dump and then Yeah, there's just like a lot going on. It's hard to like it's hard to get all the information like down and in like one spot

Jodi (42:19)
I was in a planning team.

Yeah. Listen, I think that curse is counter.

Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely crazy.

Yeah. But no, think we're going to be building it out very soon because it is our quiet time of year. Like Q1 is the time. So it will come in the next, I would say, four to six weeks. So we're recording this in January. I don't know when it's coming out. Who knows? Maybe it'll be... Well, listen, we do a thing where we force ourselves. we still and I do calls most days. So we're constantly in contact.

Cat (42:47)
I'm so impressed.

Jodi (42:57)
And it will happen soon, but yeah, I can't say exactly when but very very soon. Yes

Alex (43:02)
Incredible. Okay, so we can look

forward to it at least in 2026.

Jodi (43:06)
100 % like it'll be like before if it's not out before March like come here and and I don't know give me a piece of your mind

Cat (43:13)
You be careful what you

ask for, if you ask people to harass you, they absolutely would. The amount of times I get DMs and they're like, where's your course? I'm like, it's non-existent. Sorry. But if you need some beta testers, let us know.

Jodi (43:18)
Yes. Yeah. No, I promise. I promise it'll happen. Yeah. It's a...

Oh yeah,

please. And you too.

Alex (43:32)
⁓ Well,

I hate to cut it off, but I do want to be mindful that you do have to pick up your child. So, just looking at time.

Jodi (43:37)
I wish I could chat with you guys all day. This is so fun.

Cat (43:41)
Just come back for part two. We'll do like a full

Jodi (43:42)
Let me check again. Yeah.

Cat (43:44)
Someday Art Club crossover.

Jodi (43:46)
Yeah, that would be so fun.

Okay, great.

Alex (43:49)
Okay, okay, we have absolutely loved having you. Is there anything that you would like to end on before we tell people where to find you?

Jodi (43:51)
All right. Okay.

Yes, I would like everyone to watch the new show, Heated Rivalry, which I'm proud to say my tax dollars contributed to. So as a Canadian, I'm very proud. And if you haven't watched it yet, please watch it and please DM me about it. I might not answer you because I'm not good at answering my DM. I will try. I think that's something we didn't talk about at all is how bad I am at answering DMs and emails, but it's also being worked on for 2026.

Alex (44:01)
you

Cat (44:02)
.

Alex (44:07)
Thank

Jodi (44:24)
So.

Alex (44:24)
Yeah,

but you have a little note that says like admin is not like my talent and I loved that. was like that's a great way to frame that because it's true. We're artists. Okay, we're artistes.

Jodi (44:28)
My, ⁓ my yes. That's great.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I do. have like a, email signature is like, I'm bad at answering. Please feel free to follow up. I'm overstimulated. And then I usually, when I'm really busy, I'll put an auto reply being like, sorry. ⁓ you know, I'm probably not going to answer you. Yes. shout out to my clients for tolerating me. Yeah. Yeah.

Alex (44:46)
I'm out.

love you though it's a testament to that because in

America, maybe you are following up a lot. Doesn't matter if you have an animal

Jodi (44:56)
Yeah, I know there is such a difference in the Canadian approach. Yeah, yeah, girl. I know.

Cat (45:04)
This is crashing out about all

the follow ups.

Alex (45:07)
No!

Jodi (45:07)
I would, I would be too, my gosh. That's it. That's for me. That's a red flag. That's one of the reasons I would just be like, I know.

Cat (45:12)
It's a red flag for her too.

Alex (45:15)
Yeah, if you follow

up with me within like 24 to 48 hours, I'm like, and we're going, we're not.

Jodi (45:19)
Yeah. Yeah.

Cat (45:21)
And we're not

a Fim.

Jodi (45:22)
Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Alex (45:24)
okay, so all that being said, where can people find you even if you won't reply?

Jodi (45:28)
Well, on Instagram, I'm at Jodi.Tellier.art. I think my website is JodiTellier.com ⁓ our Sundayartclub.com is where our online courses are and where Luxury Lettering 201 will be imminently, I promise.

Alex (45:37)
Okay.

Amazing. So we'll link those in the show notes as well as always. And we're so grateful that you came on to chat with us. And also about client relationships. I think it's a really important conversation to start having and we are very much looking forward to the 201.

Jodi (45:49)
Okay, thank you.

Well, thank you.

Yay!

Well, thank you ladies so much for having me. This was so much fun. I could literally hang out all day and I really appreciate it. And thank you for being so patient. I think we've been trying to schedule this for probably a year or so. Great. There you go. Exactly. All right. Thank you.

Alex (46:14)
But maybe.

Cat (46:16)
It happened when it was supposed to happen.

Alex (46:20)
Well,

thank you everyone for keeping up. You can find Alex at Signs Our Lives and Cat at Cat Lauren Calligraphy with a C and keeping up with the calligs on Instagram. Thank you so much. Bye.

Cat (46:31)
Bye!

Jodi (46:34)
Yay!