Hot Take: Not Every Client is For You, with Suki Liu of Signed by Suki

In this Hot Take episodes, Alex of Signs of our Lives, Hannah of Tallymark Studio, and guest Suki Liu of Signed by Suki discuss the importance of recognizing that not every client is a good fit for every artist.

They unpack one of Suki's most recent Instagram posts, which started a conversation about the need for authenticity, professionalism, and setting standards within the industry, especially when it could impact the significance of a cultural tradition or art form. 

Handling client requests outside of your wheelhouse isn't easy, but we promise to hold your hand through it on this one!

Links:

Suki's Instagram Post
IG: Signed by Suki
Website: Signed by Suki

Transcript

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Alex (00:10)
Hi everyone and welcome back to Keeping Up With The Calligraphers. This is Alex of Signs Our Lives and we are doing a Hot Takes episode. So we're here with Hannah. Say hi Hannah. Of Tallymark Studio, not calligraphy. ⁓ And Suki, signed by Suki. Say hi. Welcome. Okay, so ⁓ before I introduce like our hot take for the day, I'm gonna burry the lead a little bit here.

Hannah Holt (00:20)
Here I am.

Get it right. Okay.

Suki Liu (00:29)
Hello?

Alex (00:38)
I want to introduce our guest today and I want you to tell us about who you are, what you do, where you do it, your journey, how you got here briefly, just so everyone knows who you are and then we can link where to find you at the end.

Suki Liu (00:54)
Okay, cool beans. So hello, everyone. First of all, thank you so much for having me on the show. I'm so excited. So my name is Suki Liu and I am the owner of Sign by Suki, which is my calligraphy and engraving business based out of the Metro Detroit, Michigan area where I specialize in building connection through the art of personalization. So I would say my journey started in 2019 where I was figuring

Hannah Holt (00:54)
Okay. .

Suki Liu (01:19)
out

the balance between working a full-time hospitality restaurant job and then after picking up calligraphy as a so-called side hustle as many of us do and then it moved into I want to say I started with chalkboard signage like at the restaurants I started picking up some wedding whatever signage stationery who knows I feel like we all kind of veer off and try a bunch of different things when we're first starting out and then

I kind of kept navigating what I wanted to do, design even a couple of tattoos. I don't know. I feel like I've done some pretty random things in the beginning. And I would say in present day, am ⁓ proud to say that I am a bring, right, so exciting. I'm able to bring live events ⁓ to obviously my local businesses and people like that, but I'm also able to travel.

nationwide beyond that maybe who knows to bring live customizations to your next big event. So that's yeah

Alex (02:17)
Amazing. I love that.

Hannah Holt (02:18)
That was incredible. Can you write my- my god. Wow.

Suki Liu (02:19)
Yeah, I wrote it down. I rehearsed. Don't get

it twisted, okay?

Alex (02:27)
No, for real, that was great. And you really, that was very brief. So thank you for that. ⁓ Yeah. Well, I'm so glad you're here. I feel like, you know, we connected on Instagram mostly, and that's kind of like the catalyst for this episode. And then I got to meet you when we were all in Vegas that one time, which was amazing. Yeah. Nothing like in real life. I mean, it was like...

Suki Liu (02:31)
Yeah, no problem.

Yes. So cool.

Alex (02:54)
I know what that is about. just, it's like a weird

Hannah Holt (02:57)
So.

Alex (02:58)
like, like that parasocial relationship becoming an actual thing just feels so, so cool. But yeah, so, okay, so first I gotta introduce the hot take. So a hot take, this is like a series we have on our podcast. Hopefully this isn't the first time you're listening, but if it is, we do a mini series on our podcast

Hannah Holt (03:05)
.

Alex (03:22)
which our goal is to start conversations, bring different perspectives to the table, do it in a loving way. There's no one way to live your life. There's no

one way to run your business. These are just different perspectives that we want to bring to the table, which is why we want to introduce the hot take, not every client is for you. And the reason that we're coming to you with this hot take is because Suki came up with this

Hannah Holt (03:35)
. .

Alex (03:49)
wonderful, well, I guess didn't come up with it, but like had this text exchange that she had posted online on Instagram and it started, think, a very good conversation that I think we should be having collectively and I think we want to talk more about. So if you wouldn't mind just sharing a little bit about the Instagram post and why, what made you like decide to post it and then we can kind of get into it.

Suki Liu (04:12)
Yeah, of course. So to keep it brief, the post started because I received an inquiry for a live event, on Valentine's Day. So that's in a couple of weeks. And the brand is, I will just say it's a brand that any artist would love to work with. They included their budget and it was incredible. It was very reasonable. And the request essentially was asking me about, they were looking for a

an artist to do Chinese scroll calligraphy for Valentine's Day. I initially responded with, I do not speak Chinese, ⁓ although I am interested in hearing the scope of the project and would love to learn more and go from there. She was nice and she said, thank you for your enthusiasm, sent me the information, it would be Chinese scroll calligraphy.

Hannah Holt (04:40)
.

. .

Suki Liu (05:01)
for guests that came in, would be talking, the requests would be about wealth and prosperity and things that are regarding like celebrating lunar new year. I think namely

Chinese new year, at least when we're talking about Chinese scroll calligraphy. So after reading the request and kind of taking it all in, I knew that I had to, I wanted to talk to someone else that was more, I would say experienced in this field. Now, I mean, candidly speaking, I already just said like, I don't speak Chinese.

Hannah Holt (05:16)
.

Suki Liu (05:28)
I don't read it, I don't do anything like that. So I already knew, I was already feeling like it was out of my wheelhouse. I reached out to an artist that I knew does Chinese calligraphy well. And so that prompted me to reach out to her. yeah, just also I reached out to her because she's someone that I deeply respect in the calligraphy space. Someone that I look up to and I knew she would be the right person, the perfect person to talk to.

Hannah Holt (05:39)
.

Suki Liu (05:57)
So yeah, she had a lot to say, which I was very grateful for. I didn't want her to hold back. And upon just talking to her, she obviously, if you

Hannah Holt (06:06)
you

Suki Liu (06:06)
want to read the post, like go feel free. But in essence, it's talking about how, if you hadn't, I don't know. yeah, but yeah, it really just, clearly it's a soft spot and it's a sensitive topic for a lot of people in the community for a multitude of reasons. She stated that there were,

Alex (06:09)
We'll link it

Yeah, we'll link it

Hannah Holt (06:20)
.

Suki Liu (06:25)
They were looking into hiring non-Asian calligraphers, which that's kind of wild to me, just because when it comes to another language, mean, that's... Again, do you really want to do a language injustice? I guess I don't. That's my thing. I would hate to like fail, disappoint, just let someone down due to them asking for a very simple request and just having it be appropriate. So...

All in all, we had this exchange. She let me know how she felt very openly. She also was very kind and was like, you don't, I'm not telling you to not take the event, but I'm telling you where I'm coming from and where I stood, which was so sweet. But obviously at the end of the day with given all of the information that I had just read, I swiftly turned it down. I went back to the point of contact and I said, you know, upon further reflection, I am not the right person for this job, but I would.

I have two contacts that I would love to refer you to. They are based in different, they are based more on the West Coast, but it's worth reaching out to them because they do Chinese calligraphy and they do it well. And then she came back to me and told me, thank you so much and was very grateful for the referrals. So it really, all of it ended great. Yeah, it could not have been better, but even though this specific topic is about

Chinese calligraphy and things of that nature. I definitely think this hot take is bigger than that too. I mean not that it's not a big topic, but it really is a reflection of any any job or any client or project that is out of your wheelhouse. Like it's okay to say no. It's okay that this client is not for you. We are not for every person. There's a good chance that you know, that's the beauty of what we do is that even though you

Hannah Holt (07:43)
. .

Suki Liu (08:09)
Alex, Hannah, myself, we are all calligraphy and engraving artists, or just artists in our own right. We offer similar services, but we're going to execute those services in our own style. And that's, again, the beauty of why what we do is so beautiful and our stories resonate with different people. And when you say no to those clients as well, you're making room for what will fit for you. I just hate.

Hannah Holt (08:11)
.

Suki Liu (08:33)
When we're first starting out, feel like when I first started in 2019,

I was scrambling all the time trying to make ends meet, trying to figure it out, right? Because I didn't know what I was doing, but there comes a point in your journey and your career where you don't want to do that. You know, don't have the energy, the time, like the money, like all of it. It's just maybe better in the long run to give that job to someone who knows more about it, is more passionate about it, all of the above. So.

Yeah, all in all, that's pretty much, I think, what happened. I hope I covered all

Alex (09:03)
Yeah, no, I mean you literally covered all of it. Like, and we're done. No, I want to unpack like all the things you said, because you said a lot. So I think first and foremost, like, let's just get into like, let's get into the weeds, right? Like, someone asked you. So first of all, also, I'm, are you Chinese?

Suki Liu (09:05)
Okay. Okay, cool. Just want to make sure.

Cool. Cool.

Hannah Holt (09:14)
So.

Suki Liu (09:24)
I am Chinese. am. I'm going to just keep this so short, but I thought growing up I was Chinese and Thai for literally ever. My mom has adopted this and that I took a DNA test because again, my mom has actually like Chinese, but also part Vietnamese. Again, I only took the one test. Yes, and it was yeah, so I guess I I technically I think I'm Chinese. I want to say I'm Chinese. I the other the rest of it is like up for debate.

Alex (09:41)
That's what we talked about. Yeah, okay.

So I think that goes into a bigger conversation, right about

some people feeling that like, you're Asian and Asians are a monolith and just one big group and they can all do the same art and they all have the same languages that are interchangeable when in reality the languages are very fucking different.

Hannah Holt (10:02)
. .

Suki Liu (10:15)
incredibly.

Alex (10:15)
the characters

are very fucking different to write, like all of those things, as well as just like different cultures. like, you know, there's symbolism, there's tradition, there's meaning to a lot of these things. And so I think like, you know, while these activations can be super cool and can really embrace different cultures, they're, they're

Suki Liu (10:18)
Mm-hmm.

Alex (10:35)
could be very dismissive at the same time if you don't do it in a way that actually like takes into consideration like the meaning behind it and who would actually be equipped to provide that. Does that make sense?

Hannah Holt (10:49)
Totally, yeah.

think we need like, along these lines, I think that we as artists here have a little bit of a responsibility to do some of that education. Because what you're saying, Alex, is like there is a bit of a line of like, I love that we're doing these multicultural.

Activations and that brands want to be doing that and representation is so important and necessary But in order for it to be proper representation and respect to the culture like you got to do it right and you got to do it right the whole way through and not just like part way because then that starts to feel like We're just trying to make money on this new culture, which is just trash and so like us as artists we have felt we've colleagues that

are able to represent this culture in the appropriate way. And so then I think we have a responsibility to be like, hey, this isn't it. I'm not it. Here are these other people who are actually the people you're looking for and help the brands, you know, actually put on an activation that like respects and reviers the proper activation for the particular culture, whether it be Chinese calligraphy or something for Vietnamese New Year or whatever that might be like, just like helping educate a little bit on that front.

Because I don't think you should half ass any of this stuff because then it starts to be a little icky with like the money and making, you know, trying to like make a dollar off of somebody else's culture.

Suki Liu (12:13)
I would also say that it's important to set standards for our industry as well, to sit there and just allow, I think the issue is as well agencies. It's not just like the clients and the brand, but it's also agencies that ⁓ kind of want to fill those seats. And that's, I guess, fine and dandy, but right, there comes a line where we have to be considerate of all the other things in order to really bring like that authenticity. And I also think that when,

Hannah Holt (12:25)
Yeah, definitely.

Suki Liu (12:40)
you say no to those things and you're addressing that like, even though this is an opportunity I would love to say yes to, I'm not going to because there's a bigger picture at hand. I feel like that shows your professionalism too, because you're not in it just because like, yeah, I want the job or the gig or the booking, but you're looking at the overall, you know, the guest experience, the brand experience and like your overall community of other artists, again, that are going to be.

Hannah Holt (12:52)
⁓

Suki Liu (13:05)
more fitting for certain jobs than you are. So I think it is important to, like again, it's a win for everyone, ironically, to say no to this, you know what I mean? I don't know. just, yeah.

Hannah Holt (13:15)
I know exactly what you mean. like I said this, I'm sure I've said this on the podcast before. I'm just like, what is for you won't miss you.

And I just like, try to really live by that and like run my business that way because there are so many things that either like I'm too expensive for a client or I'm not available for a dream client and I got to turn it down or a scenario like this where it's like, it feels like a dream scenario, but like I am not the right person for this. And it sucks to have to say no to money, but you what you're saying, Suki, when you were a young, when you were like a young business owner.

and just starting out, you just feel like you gotta say yes to anything because money's coming in and you gotta say yes to the money and you gotta get the jobs and make it happen or else you're gonna lose momentum. But when you have more experience in running a business, you realize that that's not the case. It's that the right jobs for you are gonna come in and as long as you're still doing the work and still putting in effort towards your business, what's for you is not gonna miss you. It's gonna show up even when you say no to things that you think are right or like,

so close to being right, the next thing is always going to be coming forward. So leaning on that saying no when you know you're not the right person for it because you're trusting that the next thing you know will be right for you. And it will.

Alex (14:30)
I think those are, yeah, those are great points. Hannah, I think you said something about authenticity. Like that's really important too. Like you do want the activation to be authentic. ⁓ I'm curious, this is more of like a side, side note, cause I have engraved things or like written things in other people, other people's languages at an event where it's like a one timer.

Hannah Holt (14:39)
Huh.

Alex (14:52)
thing. And I feel like my opinion is that's fine. And I usually tell them, I don't know this. If you want to write it, or you want to show me on the screen how it's supposed to look, and I can try to get close. I will do that for you if you're okay with that. And I have that kind of like little conversation with the guest. Like, what are your thoughts on that?

Suki Liu (15:12)
⁓ Me personally, I do the exact

same thing where I've had people come to me and they want me to engrave in Arabic or do Completely different and my I always have a verbal disclaimer I always say you have to show me you have to show me exactly how it looks because I have like you have to recognize and I recognize that any extra notch maybe slant angle could change the meaning and I would again would not what I would not want to do your language injustice by

Hannah Holt (15:27)
What else?

Suki Liu (15:41)
thinking I could fulfill this. So as long as they're understanding that I'm okay with it. What about you, Hannah?

Alex (15:46)
Yeah, no, that's

such a good point about how it could change the meaning too because it's so true.

Hannah Holt (15:47)
Last.

Yeah,

Suki Liu (15:52)
Yeah.

Hannah Holt (15:52)
no, I'm the same way. Like anybody comes up and is like, Hey, do you write in Arabic? I was like, I don't write in Arabic, but I'm happy to like help, you know, basically transfer whatever you're showing me onto, you know, the item that you want personalized. Same thing, verbal disclaimer, you have that conversation one-on-one with you with the, with the guest to be able to like say, Hey, I don't really do that. I don't speak this language. I want to make sure I get it right. and on the flip side of that, like in that sense, it feels like

you're writing in a different language, which is already difficult because I don't know these characters and I don't want to change the meaning of it. And then, but it is just like, I'm here writing in a different language. There's no like specific form to the fact of Chinese calligraphy. When you're talking about Chinese calligraphy, it's a completely different art form. Like not only is it in a different language that I don't understand and that I don't write and I don't speak, but also like...

there is a method to it. I mean, just like with English calligraphy, like it's different than just writing in cursive. Like cursive is very different than calligraphy. And so I think that like, you also have a little bit of that grace when you're talking about another person of like, hey, could you write in my different language? It's like, yeah, I can, because it is just like copying the letters. It's not like a whole different art form that I'm like trying to emulate here. So yeah, I'm like happy. I'm always happy to do that on site for people on a one-on-one if they're

cool with me being like, I don't speak this language. But I also want you to have what you want. And so I can help you do that. But yeah.

Alex (17:22)
Yeah, no, I would agree. like, I'm just even thinking like, I can, I grew up Jewish, I went to Hebrew school. And so I can read, read, I say that very lightly. Sorry, I can like read the characters, like I know what they are. And I can replicate them. But I like went to go look at like, this was a few years ago, I went to go look at a Hebrew calligraphy class. And they look so the letters look so different. I was like, I don't even know this equals this. Like, I don't know how we got from

Hannah Holt (17:45)
Okay.

Alex (17:49)
this character is actually this in calligraphy. like, can't even... Yeah, so I'm just like, I can't just that alone. Like my brain was like, that's not the same. So and the same thing, like you make an S looks different in calligraphy than it does when you're writing it in print. Yeah. So I think, yeah, it's the calligraphy version also, just to like out there for people is different.

Hannah Holt (17:53)
wow.

Right. In print.

Yeah, quite

different. Yeah, exactly.

Alex (18:14)
Yeah, and

that's not even including what you were saying, like the art form of like the strokes and the actuals. Yeah, okay. Okay, just wanted to make sure like that felt good, like for, because I was kind of thinking that in my mind. I was like, like I do actually sometimes do offer that. And like...

Hannah Holt (18:19)
Yeah.

Alex (18:30)
For anyone who does it on, if you're ever engraving on glass and someone like actually writes it down on like the post-it or something for you, you can like put it behind the glass and kind of like trace over their stuff. I've done that before. Or I'm like, want to write it down and I will literally copy it.

Suki Liu (18:40)
Yes. Yes.

Hannah Holt (18:40)
I will literally copy it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Suki Liu (18:43)
Yes, yes, but it has to be exactly right or like

what are we doing here? So yeah, just like.

Alex (18:49)
Yeah, I said it's gonna look like this. Like this pen. So yeah, that's all.

Hannah Holt (18:51)
Just like that. Just like So use your

penmanship because...

Suki Liu (18:57)
Right.

Alex (18:58)
Yeah.

Okay, so that's awesome. And I think, like, another thing you said, Suki, was just like reflecting and really taking the time like you used your resources. You weren't like in a silo making this decision, you like had something in your gut that was like, I'm not sure. And I think when we're feeling that way, I think it's really important.

to if we're not fully trusting that feeling, that inquiry, that whatever, like I think it's okay to reach out to other artists who might have experience dealing with the situation or who you might be able to refer or whatever. And like I think it it goes back to that being a professional.

being a professional business owner means that you're educating yourself so that you can also educate your clients. And I think that's a really big takeaway that I always try to, you know, tell other people too. It's like, you're responsible for the things that what you're doing and how you're existing in the world. And that's gonna...

Hannah Holt (19:42)
Okay.

Alex (19:59)
bleed into everything else that you're doing, right? So I think referring someone and coming up with that, we do know people. And I think coming up with a list, if you are someone who does Chinese calligraphy or Vietnamese calligraphy or any other form of calligraphy or art form that people might be looking for, make sure it's in your Google Business profile.

Hannah Holt (20:04)
But.

Alex (20:20)
Make sure it's on your website so that when people are actually looking for or even like a hashtag in one your Instagram posts, like, because people are looking for what you

Hannah Holt (20:20)
Yeah.

Alex (20:29)
are doing

Do either of you have any follow-up thoughts on like maybe what to do when clients want something that we can't offer?

Hannah Holt (20:40)
Well, I think that we had talked about it. I number one, reflect on it. talk, like, think about it. Think about number one, is this the right thing for me? Ask your resources. If you don't have somebody that you can reach out to and like bounce ideas off of, find somebody, start building that relationship now. It's incredibly important to have that in your, in your industry and also out of your industry. I think it's like equally important to have like kind of a third party to be able to look at it a little bit more objectively.

And then just communicate that to your client as to why you might not be of a good fit. And here's a recommendation of someone who is. anytime you refer somebody, I will just send email, like an email address, and then let the person know that I've referred them and be like, hey, to my client, talk to this person, they're great, I tell that person that I've referred them, and then send them on their way.

And oftentimes those clients come back to me for other stuff. Like it's not like I've just lost a client because I've referred somebody. Like oftentimes they will come back and be like, ⁓ I know you weren't a good fit for that, but how about this? Like it's not an automatic like loss of a client. And sometimes they do with it back. So don't be afraid to say no, because it's not always a closed door.

Suki Liu (21:54)
That's a great point to add on to that. would say, if anything, the way you handle yourself in a situation where it's a no, what really does, I think, speak volumes as to the kind of person that you might be, like people might be working with in the future. So if you're able to be cordial and understand like, okay, it's a no, but like, yes, I'd love to be considered for future projects and things like that. I've had great responses with that as well, where, yeah, people are just happy.

that there isn't an attitude, which again, it seems silly to even think that, but yeah, sometimes people can read those types of vibes. So yeah, I think the way you handle yourself, even when the answer is no, does say a lot about you too.

Hannah Holt (22:35)
Yeah.

Alex (22:37)
had a thought that's like similar to saying no and it could be either before the event starts or maybe at the event. I have noticed and this is I think more of a pet peeve of mine and it's a little less deep than the rest of like the different languages and different styles.

Hannah Holt (22:53)
I'm so excited. What is it?

Suki Liu (22:55)
Ha

Alex (22:56)
⁓ Okay, so I have, I think we as calligraphy artists, some of us have lettering backgrounds, some of us do not have lettering backgrounds. And you might know where I'm going with this. But I have seen a lot of artists using or offering serif fonts. So the fonts that are like Times New Roman, Georgia, like those sort of things, like and I'm not not fonts, like typefaces, lettering styles that have those those little foots in the

Hannah Holt (23:21)
front.

Alex (23:24)
things and I if you are not someone who is confident in that or not someone who like has practiced that at home please stop offering at events like I for me for me and me only I can't I can't look at another like

Hannah Holt (23:47)
you

Alex (23:47)
Like

the top lines and the bottom lines are like not the same height and but whatever i'm not using any of the correct terms right now because vocabulary is not my forte but like please use a ruler please use tape please use something to make sure all the tops are on the top and all the bottoms are on the bottom And there's the spacing in between each one is the similar because holy shit I cannot look at another fucking serif or another like block letter or sans

on these fucking things.

Hannah Holt (24:19)
I love it. I'm here for this take. It really is in line with what we're saying. I'm like, this is

a little bit more universal because for me, I've had clients come to me like, hey, could you come for this Chinese calligraphy or Chinese New Year? And I'm like, ma'am, no, I'm a white person. I'm not gonna sit there and represent Chinese New Year. Like I'm not gonna. And so for me, it's a little bit less of like a dilemma.

Alex (24:36)
you

I'm to to take two.

Hannah Holt (24:47)
I would hope it would also be that way for other white and also non-Asian people, but it's a little bit less of dilemma. But this, think also, it really falls in line of like, someone's like, hey, we don't want script. We would like a serif font. Can you do something like that? How many times were you like, I could probably figure that out? Make sure you're practicing like hell beforehand so that it actually looks good. Like you don't want to do like the whole thing we were talking about.

Alex (24:56)
Peace for everyone.

No.

Hannah Holt (25:14)
with this whole topic, don't do a disservice to your client or the guests that are going to be there. Like you don't want to show up and provide a poor product just because you want the client. Like that's just not it.

Alex (25:28)
is the take.

Hannah Holt (25:29)
Hey, there

Suki Liu (25:29)
⁓

Hannah Holt (25:30)
it is!

Suki Liu (25:30)
Yeah, truly.

Alex (25:33)
Yeah. Yeah.

Hannah Holt (25:36)
amazing.

Alex (25:37)
Okay, so that was my hot take within the hot take because I'm so...

Hannah Holt (25:40)
I love it. It's

Suki Liu (25:41)
inception

Hannah Holt (25:43)
phenomenal.

Alex (25:45)
I think overall I've come up with like a few Rs. We can reflect, redirect, and refer. And that's take. That's our three steps to just wrap it up. Yeah. All right. So, okay, where can we find you, Suki?

Hannah Holt (25:53)
Oh my god, that. I'm here for that. Let's go.

Suki Liu (25:53)
Great.

You can find me at signed by Suki on all platforms, suppose. Yeah. Signedbysuki.com has my website, which has a bunch of fun videos on what I do and DME. I did not refine this part of the segment. yeah, just hit me up. Okay. Thank you. This is authentically me. Okay. Yeah. Sounds good. But yeah.

Alex (26:21)
What? I me up.

Hannah Holt (26:21)
It's perfect. No, no. Yeah.

Alex (26:27)
That's the

podcast. Yeah. All right. And Hannah, where can we find you?

Hannah Holt (26:32)
You can always find me at Tallymark Studio.

Alex (26:36)
amazing. And I'm Alex of Signs of Our Lives and this podcast is Keeping Up with the calligs on Instagram. And we're so happy that you listened. Thank you so much for ⁓ coming to our hot takes. This one was a shorty but like shorty but goodie So thank you both and thanks for keeping up. Bye!

Hannah Holt (26:56)
Bye!

Suki Liu (26:56)
Bye!