Pricing Your Services as an Event Artist

Cat of Cat Lauren Calligraphy and Alex of Signs of Our Lives share how they price their services as event artists, and some other pricing structures that you can utilize in your art businesses.

They share the considerations to take into account when pricing, and how pricing for events can be different than in-studio commissions or product-based business models.

They also touch on how being transparent with your pricing benefits everyone, and how having a pricing structure helps you understand the value you provide and communicate it to potential clients.

Links:
Nibtique
Jodi Tellier Art

Transcript

Hi everybody, welcome back to Keeping Up With The Calligraphers. I am Cat of Cat Lauren Calligraphy. And I am Alex of Signs of Our Lives. And we are here today. We are going to be talking about pricing, maybe a little bit differently than you have traditionally heard some of these conversations. But before we get into that, Alex, is there anything that you want to share, anything big going on? Tell me what's happening in your life.

Oh, such a great question. So today I got to engrave for San Diego Tourism Authority, which was so fun. I got to engrave some water bottles for the staff and they were all so obsessed and it was so fun. And that actually, I would actually like to plug that this came from me going to a networking event and meeting a couple of people and connecting with them. And then they remembered me and they reached out. So I just want to say: network. What about you?

I have not had, no, I have not had any events yet. I couldn't remember if I did or not. I've not had any events yet, but I have been implementing a lot of our tips, and I have booked so much travel. Which I'm so excited about, but I'm like very anxious about just because I still need to like finish booking all of the things, but I'm very excited to share some of these things as they come up. And that my business is still taking me everywhere and I got another international trip. So yeah, I'm very excited for you. I'm excited to share more about that maybe on another podcast.

Yeah, I'm very excited for you because I get to join you on some of the trips. So yeah, stay tuned everyone. We're gonna have a blast. We are gonna have a blast. That is all I have to share today. But before we jump into it, I know we wanted to kind of come in with like a few disclaimers. So again, talking about pricing today, and kind of coming from a couple different like mindsets or just like, things that we want to establish.

So I feel like the first thing that we wanted to establish is like, we are not like the authority on any of these things. Like we cannot, should not, are not telling you what is right for you, your business, any of that. The framework we're coming from today is more talking about things that you should consider when you are identifying how you want to have your pricing structure or structures. Depending on if you offer different types of things, one type of pricing may work better for one service or offering than the other. So coming from the framework of having more things to consider. Anything you want to add, Alex?

Yes. Also that we're primarily talking about pricing for events. Not necessarily like in studio commissions or like those one -off orders that you might get or for like wedding signage, those types of things We are coming from the lens of events strictly today. Obviously could apply to other things as always but yeah, we're not here to tell you what to do, how to run your business. We're just providing our perspective and things that we do and things to consider.

Perfect. All right. And then you might get some different perspectives or opinions based on our experiences. Even Alex, you being full time, this being like your primary income versus me not being full time in my business, but it still being an important part of my income, things like that. So you might hear that along the way.

Okay, so Alex, let's get into it. Let's talk about what kind of like those main factors are when we're, at least in our opinion, when we're considering how we're going to construct our pricing. What's the first couple of things that you feel like are important that come to mind? Yeah. So there's a lot of factors that go into what you're going to do when you are creating your pricing, when you're adjusting your pricing, all of that. I think one of the first things to consider is your market.

So are there a lot of other artists in your area that are offering live experiences for events? So are there other fashion illustrators? Are there other embroidery artists? Are there other calligraphers? Are there other bottle painters? Things like that. Are there people that are doing what you do? And what are they charging? I know a lot of people don't necessarily willingly offer up that information. But Cat and I, we are very transparent with how we do those sort of things. So it is on our website. And that's like one way you can kind of look to see like, what are other people doing? Do some market research.

And Cat, like I know we've kind of talked about this before, but like what are, what are kind of like the main reasons that, you know, you put your, put your pricing on your website because I make my pricing available. Yeah. Yeah. I put my pricing, a couple reasons. One, the main thing is that I personally want people to filter themselves out. And I don't necessarily mean that in a way of like, I need people to know like how expensive my prices are. Like that's not it. I am part time in my business, I have a career. So that is helpful to me iIf people can filter themselves out because then I don't have to dedicate as much time emailing a lead that maybe isn't qualified. Does that potentially put me in a situation where I don't have the opportunity to, you know, communicate my services to someone or maybe answer some questions for someone that might be on the fence that I could, you know, potentially convert into a lead? Yes. But that is the risk I take and that works well for me and my business.

And I just personally don't feel like lack of transparency and pricing helps anybody. It doesn't help my clients. It doesn't help other people in my industry. I think it's really important that we are able to talk about it. If you're not comfortable, that's one thing, but when it turns into like a gatekeep-y type of thing, I don't know. That's just like not my vibe. What about you?

No, I feel the exact same way. Like I feel like transparent pricing has led me to be at the point where I'm at. I did it with wedding signage and I do it now, like with my event pricing. I would like people to go to my website and be able to see exactly what my rate is for the same reason. I mean, even though this is full time for me, I don't want just like you said, like inquiries that are unfortunately like not a good fit. I want people to be able to know my price and know what they should expect. I think Brene Brown said, “Clarity is kindness.” And that's something that we practice at our household and we practice it in our businesses as well. So I think being clear with people and providing that expectations for clients or potential clients is always really helpful. And it can give something, someone to have something to aim for. So while they might not be able to afford us right now, they could say, okay, well, I'm gonna budget and I'm gonna keep this person in mind for next time.

Um, right. So like it might not work for this event, the budget we have already approved for this event. But now that I know your pricing and I really want you to come back for this next event, I can make sure that that is included in the budget before it's approved kind of thing. Exactly. And I've had that happen many a time. So I think, you know, sometimes money can be so taboo. It's, it's hard. But again, I think when you're clear with people and you set expectations, that helps everybody in the long run.

So again, you might not be able to find other artists that are putting it on their website, but hopefully you know some people even like around your general area that might be able to kind of, you might be able to like look up either on Google or Instagram and kind of figure out that market rate.

Yeah, I think we've mentioned it before. So Nibtique if you're not familiar, if you're a calligrapher bottle painter, kind of in that sphere. I want to say if people are on that directory, you might be able to search through like your local area, I would say a good amount of people on that website do post their pricing. So if you're not able to find it from like a straight Google search, or you don't feel comfortable sending a DM, because that can definitely be, depending on how that communication goes. That is a potential resource that you might be able to use to kind of do that market research. And I think to like the point of this episode is one to have more transparent conversations about pricing. So that way you have kind of a framework of justification and you're not kind of just like blindly copying somebody else's prices. So I think the intent of the market research isn't to find out like, what is everybody charging in my area? Okay, I'm gonna charge the same thing. Right? Like it is because that also kind of gives you imposter syndrome sometimes of like, like, like when you're trying to have that conversation with a client, it makes it very difficult to justify your services, because you aren't able to kind of explain why you arrived at that number.

So the idea of doing that market research is to make sure you are falling within a competitive rate that matches some of these other considerations that we're going to talk about. Yeah. And I think something to note is that it's going to change based off of your location. So for instance, like, Cat and I are located in a very like high volume area in regards to events, parties, things that are happening, brands promoting their products, their services. We’re where the California brands are. Exactly, all these brands are all these award shows are like all the influencers are. Yeah. So I think that's also something to know that like, there's a lot of demand for those things. So the fact that there's so many artists here, it makes sense, right? Like, there's a high demand for it. Yeah. And I mean, I don't know if I should even say this, but sometimes I feel like there's not even enough supply for all the events because I'm like, oh my God, I need like 10 calligraphers for this 2000 person event. And I don't even know like enough people to hire. But yeah, so I think like that compared to, for instance, like the middle of the US where there might not be like a high volume of events happening and things going on necessarily, it's going to be a little bit different.

Yeah, I mean, cost of living for sure and how that factors in, like, what the standard is, again, like in your area. Are people in your area hiring again for this type of service or something like that? But on the flip side of that, are you the only person in your area that offers this type of a service? Right? So all of those things may change what you are pricing at, either up or down. So again, using this framework to consider what is going to make sense for you and your business and where you're physically located at, but also kind of transitioning into the next piece, like where you are at skillswise.

So I would say like the next big thing to factor in in terms of pricing, and all of that would be obviously your experience within the skills and services that you are promoting. So great question for you. Did you charge the same? Do you charge the same now as you did when you started? Hell no.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure my first event, which was painting shoes. I used air quotes for that because I was using paint pens that I bought on my way from Michael's and I was the most uncomfortable with it. And I'm pretty sure I charged like $100 an hour. And I felt like I was just like crawling in my skin. Like I was like, I've literally never done this before. Like that is unreal amount of money. But it, yeah.

It was still a justified amount. So that was back in like 20 late, maybe 2018. I want to say that was like the end of 2018 moving into 2019. Um, so that was like five, six years ago at this point. Um, okay. Yeah. So 2019, it was like 2019 then, but yeah. So, um, five years ago, I think it's that math, my math is mathin’ there. But I think that was it.

It was justified because I was still providing kind of like that luxury service that kind of, you know, what was that word that I used? Premium. That's what it was. I'm providing a premium service. But I was, it was literally like my first event, my first couple of events, like I was not in a position to be able to troubleshoot. I had not had experience with kind of like crowd control, even like taking orders, you know, anything like that. So I feel like that was justified based on my skill level at the time, but also my level of experience with actually, like running a live event. Yeah, yeah. Like my client experience at that point, like there was none, like they were fully dictating that experience with me, like, you know, there was no CRM, I'm pretty sure I sent out like a PDF contract, like kudos the fact that even had a contract, like, you know, any of those things. So it just like, it was different. It was very different than what I am able to offer now, the value that I'm able to bring now. And I imagine that's probably the same for you.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, I would say like my first few events, like I took like a I took so long to do every single piece of anything. Yes, like I think it took me like a solid like, 10 to 15 minutes per bottle that I was engraving, like a few words. I was like, hold on, I'm going to do every single down stroke. I am going to probably use the wrong burr and I'm not gonna change it for five events. I am going to like forget that I left my paint brushes, you know, at home and I don't have the correct size or the correct style brush that I need or like whatever it might be. So absolutely the same, I was not providing that client experience that I am now, where I know exactly what tools to bring, exactly how to communicate expectations to the client, how to book a client, all of those things, as well as the on-site client experience, right? Like when you're interacting with customers, people that are either buying something or people that are at an event where people are getting stuff for free, having those interactions as well and dealing with that sort of workflow. So I think, oh, absolutely not the same person that I was four or five years ago when I first started doing any sort of events. So for any client who might be listening to this, I am totally a new person now.

So, but also like shout out to the first clients that like even put their faith in us at all that were like, yeah, you could do it. This is great. Shout out to everyone's first client. They are all real MVPs. Like genuinely. Oh gosh, that's so humbling to look back at that stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I agree. But yeah, I think going back to like, experience, right? Like, what is your experience and not just years necessarily like in whatever your chosen art medium is that you are providing as your onsite service. So again, if that's painting, calligraphy, engraving, you know, whatever that is, like you have spent time like perfecting your craft. You hopefully as you continue to grow your business are continuing to build on your skills, adding, you know, new complimentary types of things, whatever else. So all of that should be factored in.

So maybe if you're earlier on in your skillset, you're still, you know, you've got one good solid offering that is reflected in your pricing. Maybe you have five or six really well established skills that you're able to kind of shift between an offer that's going to affect your pricing differently. But I think across the board, either way, like it to justify again, like the amount per hour might sound outrageous, right? Like, people are paying you not for the time it takes you to complete something on site, but for the years or whatever it is, months, time that you have put in to perfect your skill to that level to be able to execute your art at a live event. So what is it? So they can be like, yeah, I like it. It's art, Picasso. Amazing. Not the Picasso quote I'm going for, but. I'm gonna leave that in because I prefer that. Are you sure? I feel like that was a famous quote by Picasso. I like it.

That's the one, I'm leaving it in. No one can disprove it, I'm sure he did say it. Absolutely. For anyone who doesn't know what the fuck we're talking about, because someone did DM  us today that was like, I relate to Cat being a geriatric millennial. I was like, I am cackling at this right now because they were talking about how they are not on TikTok. For anyone who doesn't know, it was a TikTok sound. For y 'all geriatric people, that's what that's for.

So I guess we should get back to our points. I don't know the thing that you came on here to listen to us about some other things that are some factors when you are creating your prices. We're not getting paid for like backend stuff in our business, right? But those are all like necessary things. Um, and that all should be factored into your hourly pricing or however you do your pricing will kind of go into that in a little bit for us. It's typically hourly. So that is the perspective that I'm coming from, or we are coming from. But again, cost of doing business, right? So, you know, website, your client management system if you have one contracts if you've purchased one or you have purchased time from a lawyer to, you know, draw up one for you. Those darn like pesky taxes that we have to pay, right? Like the time that you are going back and forth with communicating with clients, like all of those things are cost of running a business, cost of running a good client experience, right? But that's not anything that we're gonna get directly paid for.

Yeah. And I think like one good example of that, I love to make this analogy, is that because I buy lattes pretty frequently, a couple of times a week, maybe a little bit more, I don't know, depending on the week. I'm a treat yourself girly for anyone who doesn't already know this, so now you know. So like when you're buying a latte and it's $8 and you're like, holy shit, $8, you're not paying $8 for the latte, right? Like you're paying $8 for that cafe to be open. You're paying $8 for that barista to be making your coffee, you're paying for the espresso, you're paying for the oat milk, you're paying for the syrup, you're paying for the lights to be on, the music to be vibey to, and like all of these other things. So when we say like the cost of doing business, it's kind of like that, right? Like, so there's so many things that go into, like so many factors that go into certain prices. So those are just like some things to consider for yourself as well when you're creating your pricing. It's like you do have to actually break, hopefully do more than break even at the end of each month. So make sure that you're keeping those things, you know, in your mind when you're making those decisions, as well as cost of doing business.

Yeah, no, I was gonna say as well as like the supplies, like that also counts as like cost of doing business. So for instance, like you might buy like, one thing of paint for the day because like they want a specific color blue. And then a few paint brushes and then you know, you're up to $35 that whatever your local art supply store is and then you know, you charge a certain amount, that's like way more than just like that should be one factor in terms of like your cost of doing business like you have supplies that you do to be buying you have business cards, you have signage. You have things that like the gas took to get there, things like that. Um, they are all things that you should absolutely be considering, um, so that you are actually profiting, um, from all of the work that you're doing, all of the hard work that you're doing.

Yeah. I probably, I still forget to like include supplies half the time and things like that. And then I will be like, dang, I'm at, I'm out of this silver sharpie. This paint pen that I need for this - I thought I already had it, right? Like I've done that many a times. Yeah. I was going to say I'm not very good at remembering that, but my hourly rate does cover that because I know that about myself and I'm not going to remember to charge it to each event.

I was going to say literally same. You can absolutely do it like that. Again, we're going to go into kind of like structuring pricing a little bit later. But in my experience, clients don't respond as well when they see every little single material listed out. I just fold that all into the pricing. I say, this is my pricing for this event. This is my hourly rate. Again, supplies are included in that already for me. All they're seeing is an hourly rate. And then depending on where it's located, any associated travel fees. And again, even with a travel fee, I'm not breaking that down, like mileage and then also valet and then also that like, I'm giving them one round number. And that seems like, yeah, I think it works out way better almost every time. If they ask, I can itemize it out. But I just, it does not seem to bode well for me.

Yeah, no, I think that taking the guesswork out of it for people is very appropriate. And I think that's such a good point. Because I would do the same thing with signage. It'd be like, you know, this, this by this is going to cost this. And that way, like, I'm not literally calculating every single inch, all the paint colors, all the markers I gotta buy, all that shit. Like, just make it simple for people. It's the same thing with the website clicks that you were talking about. That's a me problem. That doesn't need to be my client’s problem. Like all of those things like they are paying me for my expertise to like know what is to be correct. Like I don't need to, I don't need to burden them with that information. Yeah.

So yeah, speaking of, we do charge a travel rate. Um, but before we charge a travel rate, we also have minimums. Yeah. So this kind of moves us into like, those are kind of the main things for setting your pricing, or getting a rough idea of your pricing. So there are a couple different ways I think you could structure it. I'm sure there is more than what we're going to mention here. Please DM us and let us know if you operate your business a little bit differently than what we might talk about because I'm always so interested to learn other ways. Again, we are not the end all be all of this information. So I would love to see how other artists might be doing things but yeah.

So I think the first things first for us both was setting minimums and I say minimums plural because I think both of us have, well I guess no, we probably both do the same thing. We both have minimum, I think hourly rates, but I personally don't implement. Like the number of hours? I technically do.

Yeah, yeah, a minimum. Yeah, I think there's like, okay, so there's many different like, maybe back up a second. So there's many different ways to structure your pricing. So some people structure, like I've known people to structure it hourly, or have like a day rate, have a half day rate. Don't ask me what either of those things mean, because I don't actually fully understand that. I think the full day is like, eight or more hours, or it's like eight hours, half day tends to be four. Okay, so I guess that's like another way where you can kind of take the guesswork out of it for your clients instead of charging like I do this X per hour. It's just like, okay, if you were hiring me for three to four hours, it's gonna be $1,000 or whatever it might be.

I mean, I think it depends on your offering, right? So like, we tend to be hired hourly, but for example, maybe a live wedding painter where you're doing like a portrait, not individual portraits of guests, but like you're doing the one portrait of the bride and groom at their ceremony, for example, something like that, you might do a day rate or an event rate, you're not saying per hour, because I know a lot of them also take it home after whatever else. So I think your, how your art functions on site may dictate what makes the most sense for your pricing. So again, we're coming from hourly because that typically works for us in the services we offer. Yeah, that's such a good point. I, oh my gosh, that gave me so much anxiety when you were like the one portrait at the wedding. Because I've seen those. No, no, no, I've seen those and I'm like, oh my gosh, can you imagine like, I know these wildly talented folk. Yeah, props to you if you're doing that. But yeah, so Cat and I set like a minimum price per hour, like X amount per hour. 

And then there are a lot of other artists that charge, that have like a minimum amount of hours. So for instance, I have a minimum of three hours. Do I waive it a lot of the time? Yes, but only for local events and only for certain people. Because usually I'll lump it in where it's like, yeah, like I'll do like two hours here and two hours there. But like, you're hiring me for multiple events. So like it makes sense, and I have to drive all of 10 minutes. So I think those are some things to consider as well. Like there are some people that are like, no, I will not work for less than five hours or four hours. I personally don't always want to be at every place for that amount of time. So I think it's really dependent on you. Cat's laughing at me.

Yeah. And I think it just depends on like, I've always heard it described as like, what is your rate, like the minimum amount to like, get you out of bed or whatever else. For me, I think I just want to make sure that the amount of time I'm there is going to make sense. One for what you want to hire me for, like the impact you want for me, like, I can't maybe get to everybody in two hours, if that's all you want for me, or something along those lines.

So if it's benefiting the client to not have it be that short, but also too like, if I've had extensive like back and forth communication with someone I've spent time like educating them on all of the things like making recommendations on like whatever this service is going to be or like an ideal surface, like if we're trying to troubleshoot that together. I'm not doing that for one hour. Oh my god. That doesn't justify everything else, right? Like all of the time I've put into this my time to get to where I need to go half the time or whatever else. So typically, if you set a minimum amount of hours, it protects to make sure that you are compensated appropriately for your time and you're not spending all of this time. Yeah, the back and forth for you to not be profitable. Yeah, no, I think that's such a good point as well. I think yeah.

I wasn't thinking it through that thoroughly, obviously. Because if you're doing an event with like 400 people and they're like, hi, we'd like to hire you for one hour. And you're like, yeah, I'm going to get through, I don't know, 50 people. Which is, what is that? Like a sixth of what the amount of people like that wouldn't make any freaking sense. Don't ask me to math on the spot.

Yeah, I'm so sorry. It wouldn't make sense. Like it has to depend on the event. Like I'm just thinking like there's certain things that they're like, hey, we need 50 items. And I'm like, yeah, I can do that in two hours. No problem. And it's like a private event. And it's like employee appreciation. And it's right next door, you know, something like that. Right. But yeah, no, that's such a good point. It really does depend on the event.

But I think like our main point is that you should have some structure behind your pricing. Not only is it really helpful for you when you are charging, and also if you would also like to have that transparency on your website, on your profile, wherever you put your pricing, you know, having that structure like helps your client as well. So it gives you that reasoning like how sorry, you had a point there. Go.

The other thing I was going to add is it keeps you profitable. Like we are businesses as much as we want to serve other people, especially if this is your full time gig, like you need to make sure that you are taking care of you, your family, whatever it is that your income supports. So making sure that you are getting paid appropriately for the services you're providing and the value that you're bringing.

Yeah. And I want to note, like, there's a reason that we charge hourly and not per item. And a lot of that has to do with, yeah, like if you're doing, let's, we're going to just say we're doing a retail event, for instance. There are people that are buying products and that is how they're like, there's an exchange of things happening, right? Like they're buying something in order to get something personalized, whether that be a portrait of them or that be their name on something or a bottle painted, whatever it might be. You are not responsible for the foot traffic that comes in that day. You are not responsible for the salespeople doing their job. The price of the item, the dollar amount that they identify that the customer needs to hit. Yeah.

Yeah. So if you charge per item, um, you wouldn't - you probably wouldn't make a whole lot of money and you would get ready and you would have all your supplies and you would buy all your tools and have all these costs for you. And then you would go to your location and sit there and there might be one person in three hours that might buy something. And guess what? Like you need to be paid for your time because you were there to be ready to be personalizing things or painting things or whatever it might be on the spot. And so you are being paid for your time to be physically there, available doing the thing. Otherwise it would be an in studio commission. Right, like that's totally different. Right. Yeah. And I mean, I've had events and I know you're probably the same way I've had I'm pretty sure like one item and I'm pretty sure it was an employee like purchase something for like a mom's birthday or something. I've literally had a retail event that it was that for whatever reason everyone was like flabbergasted, which it was just dead. Like there was not and it was not because I was not a stellar artist. Like it had nothing to do with the salespeople not being great salespeople. Like truly it was just like a ghost town that day for whatever reason. And I literally engraved one thing and it was an employee bought something for their mom. And we've all been there. And also a test bottle. Yeah. And I've had events that were jam -packed the four hours I was there back to back to back to back, not even barely getting a chance to look up, right? Like, that's just the roll of the dice.

Most of these brands, because our services, the ones that we offer specifically, have been around, again, for about five years. Some of them are still newer, right? But they have a general idea of like, it fully depends on the foot traffic. The idea is that they're trying to bring us in to bring in more foot traffic. So yes, thank you for providing that input about why we do hourly rates versus. Yeah, you're not responsible for that as artists, like you're there to provide your service and be ready to provide it.

And I think like sometimes people will be great at promoting for events and yeah, same, like I have literally, I think that's probably why we connected so much is because we would literally just like text during… there were certain retail events where we were both working at the same time, like both sitting in a retail space and nothing is happening. And we're like, sometimes the people didn't even know we were coming. So LOL to that. Like we're planning and that's at least 50 % of the time. That's like we're planning on like, I don't, that wasn't even us. That was like higher ups, like going up and up and up the chain of like people who like didn't communicate to the actual employees that were working that day so that they couldn't even communicate with their clients that would come in to be getting this service. So things like that, you know. So that's also normal. So for anyone who's sat in an event where literally nothing happened for three to five hours, yep, you can listen to our podcast. It's not you, with them. Yeah, literally. It's not you with them. Yeah. And like, you know, I always do my best. Like I personally like promote my events either on Instagram or like through my newsletter, things like that. But you know, when they're able to because I know a lot of times it might be a private event or yeah, only or something like that. Absolutely. Um, yeah, so I think like those are some things that are definitely like absolute factors of why we charge hourly, why we have minimums for what we do and all the things that we do consider when we are creating our rate.

And shout out to Jodi from Someday Art Co. She's one of our faves. I remember like a few years ago, I screenshotted this and I actually saved it and it's like, it like sits in my head rent free, you're welcome. It's also, I'm pretty sure it’s somewhere saved in my Instagram too. It was a really good story. But yeah, so like, she basically shared on her Instagram, like, listen, $100 an hour, $200 an hour. It sounds absolutely insane. If you think of like the cost of like, minimum wage these days or just like the average employee in the US, that would be insane, right? Like that's not what it, not insane. I'm sure plenty of people make that. Not the average person, right? And it does sound pretty wild and it sounds like a lot of money, but guess what? We are A, not doing this 40 hours a week and B, we are including all of these costs that we just listed.

And C, we are a literal marketing tool for brands. So the money that they're investing into marketing is us, the artists. We are sitting there to promote their brand. And we are like an ad campaign almost, or a commercial. So like they are investing in that for that client customer experience. And those dollars go really far when they are hiring us. So that is why the price is so much. So thank you Jodi for providing that pro insight to us for all of us that we're kind of like starting out in events or like kind of in the thick of it. Because sometimes it is hard to like justify like, why the hell is this so much? And that is why you are a literal marketing tool. And so yeah. 

All of that. Yeah. I feel like too, it's no, but I really it was it was helpful for me seeing that because I struggle significantly with like, especially in the beginning, I know I'm in a much better spot about it now, but I have a very hard time. I understand these things, but I have a very hard time communicating it out to other people. I really had to take a lot of time and learn how to be able to educate my client, right? Like in a way that felt genuine to me that was able to be clearly clearly communicated, LOL, but I'm literally struggling to say clearly communicated right now. 

But in a way that was clearly communicated to the client, right? In a way that they were going to understand and still buy in on that. So I really appreciate when people share that type of insight, especially Jodi, just phrasing it that way. I was just like, Oh my gosh, yes, like that is it. So it was very helpful for me to hear other people talk about it. One, just to validate it, but two to help give me some language that I was able to then use to educate my clients. So the biggest shout out to Jodi. I've taken so many of her courses, all of those things, and they're all so helpful. Same. Go take a look.

Yeah. And I think the biggest takeaway from that is that you need to understand your value so that you can communicate your value to the client so that they can understand your value.

I think that's pretty much it. There were a handful of other things that we wanted to sneak in also, some other considerations that might not be for. So I think all of that was perfect for talking about like your base rate, like your standard pricing, kind of where you start. And then there might be certain events that have other variables to them that might affect your pricing for that event.

So you'll also notice if you look at the pricing on our website, that we might say start like, well, I don't know about yours. I don't remember yours, but mine, I think say starting at whatever the hourly rate I have on there is. I don't know what I've updated it yet. I don't know. Why are you asking me these hard questions? It's the beginning of January, 2024. Everybody update your website. But that's the wording I believe I used is like starting at this dollar amount because there are times that the nature of the event or something might dictate a different pricing.

So the one thing for me, because I don't do this other thing that is on our agenda here. One thing for me that comes up a lot that affects my pricing is last minute bookings. Being near LA, I don't, if you're not experiencing this in events, maybe if you're newer to events, we tend to be the last piece of the puzzle for a lot of these budgets. So you're getting reached out to maybe a month is like phenomenal, ideal. Realistically, it tends to be like two, three weeks out. Sometimes I'm getting reached out to like the week of or like a couple days before and they're like, hey, last minute, you know, we need somebody, whatever else like.

If I've got to drop other things or if I have maybe studio work or something like that that I'm going to have to put aside for this, that I might increase my hourly rate because it's a last minute booking or whatever else. But if I don't have something else going on, I'm not setting anything else aside that I am now bumping this person up priority. Just because they're asking me last minute, I'm not taking advantage of that situation. Like, I'm just going to charge them my flat hourly rate for that, right? So that is something that I come across.

The other thing is travel fees. So I, especially recently, have been hired to do a lot of travel for these events. So pretty consistently, like I'm charging for mileage and gas just because especially for a while there, gas was like outrageous in Southern California. And it was crazy. So I'm including that for anything outside of like a certain radius in my area that I've identified. I want to say it was like 50 miles or something. Um, I don't recall, but charging that, um, if it's somewhere in downtown LA for me, I'm charging for parking because parking is not free anywhere in LA. They will literally charge you to park at a Ross. Like it's not like it's not free. So that is something else that I am, I'm folding in for things that are like farther. Obviously, like travel, like airplane, like my ticket, any accommodations if it's something I need to be there overnight. But also like per diem and meals, like it's a business trip. So depending on if that makes sense for what that is, that is something that I am in charging because I am still not available to somebody else because I am dedicated to your event and I'm having to travel for this amount of time, right? So that doesn't equal the hourly rate for me per se. That's not how I phrase it or how I factor it in, but I do charge her per diem because again, I am having to buy food out, you know, whatever, all of those things. So those are things that I also include when it makes sense.

Yeah, I feel like I oftentimes… Not oftentimes. I was gonna say there are some times where I've gotten questions about the travel fee. I would like to know absolutely be factoring in kind of like how you're factoring doing your hourly rate. Not only are you factoring in like the mileage, the gas, the parking and those like travel accommodations, but also like your literal time like driving to get there. To get there. Yeah, like my travel fees does not necessarily include accommodations and mileage and all of that, especially like I do drive an electric car. So for a while, like I was not spending any money on gas. But yeah, like you are literally taking sometimes hours of your time to drive or to travel, especially if you're traveling like to another state or you're flying, like you are taking a full day probably to get there. So charging that like per diem, which that's per day rate, a day rate to the client makes absolute sense because you are away from your family, you're away from your home, you're away from all the other things. You can't book anything else. Exactly. So I think like factor that in as well. And that's something that is also something that needs to be sometimes explained to your client as well, because that is a contributing factor to your travel fee. 

Right. And that might be something that in a negotiation that you bend on, right? Like I'm not willing to come like to bend on flights or whatever else, I'll wave a per diem if it's something that you're really interested in and you're trying to be a good partner and kind of be within a budget for something that you're highly motivated to book, right? So that is, again, not you don't have to do that every single time. It's just something that I haven't heard anybody ever talk about. So we wanted to bring that up here.

Yeah, awesome. And then depending on the event, this is obviously for very specific events, but when it gets to be like 200 plus person event, or like depending on the type of material, for instance, painting takes a lot longer than engraving. So when they want, when the client wants a lot of people to receive the personalization, or there's, depending on the type of surface that you're working on, or the type of medium that you're using. You might have to bring in other artists, making sure that you're knowing what their rate is as well. Again, it always kind of comes down to client education. So yeah, I think those are also things that you can consider.

Yeah, I think that's also a tool you can use. For example, if they're like, no, we only have two hours because of the way this event is flowing because someone's going to give a speech at a certain time or whatever else. But I need you to get through 100 people. Like, okay, well, if you only have two hours, I'm gonna have to bring in a second artist to fulfill what it is that you're looking for in the time that you're looking for. But yeah, obviously that person is gonna have potentially their own hourly rate or maybe you have that budget identified and then you find somebody that fits in with that hourly rate. So depending on which end you're at, I think that could go either way. Cat here with the great points.

Also, something that I have yet to do that I really need to work on doing. So far, I've just solicited my partner for free labor and my sister and friends. But having an assistant can also help. So I have yet to find someone to be able to help me. If you're one of those people and you are locals of San Diego, please let me know if you'd like to work for an assistant rate. I will, please, please. Yes, thank you. I will add you in.

Because some events are like, they're so close to needing another artist, but they're not. It's like, I literally just need someone to like, put the foil on the luggage tag so that I can foil it and not worry about like, taking orders, putting it on and off.

Or somebody that is explaining it. Yeah, yeah, someone that can explain the process to the next person in line while you're sitting there customizing or whatever else because that does take time to say like, Hi, this is what I'm offering. This is how it works. These are the options. Now you're going to stand here and think about what you want to be personalized. And I'm going to sit here and smile at you while you wait. And then you're going to ask me for suggestions, right? Like that could be like a three minute exchange, right? Where you could continue to be working if an assistant was able to be there and kind of provide that explanation or whatever else. So I definitely use that. I also solicited my sister. I did include her in my rate, but I did bring my sister with me to Paris to help with that kind of stuff. Should have brought me, but it's fine. We won't talk about that.

Next time. Very rude of you. If there's next time. And on that note. I think that's it. Take us out. Is there anything else that we missed? In terms of where to find us, if you are somehow stumbling upon this podcast and not through our Instagram or someone told you, you can find us on Instagram at Keeping Up With The Calligs. Short for calligraphers, but that name was not available. Submit your stories, your feedback, things you want to hear more about, respond to what we're talking about. That's pretty much where we're talking to everyone. And we absolutely love hearing from you. It makes our day all the time. Leave us a review on Apple or Spotify if you're listening to us and you find it helpful and you're like, wow, 10 out of 10 or five out of five, I guess. Five out of five stars. And you want to tell people how great it is. That's how more people can find us. That's how the algorithm works everybody.

So share on socials, follow us on socials, make sure you're subscribed, all of that. And yeah, we're - And if you want to reach out to us directly for any reason, if you really resonate with one of us or you just like really wanna reach out for some reason, you can also find us on Instagram. I am Cat at Cat Lauren Calligraphy. That is Cat with a C. And Alex, go ahead and show yours. I am Signs of Our Lives. That is my Instagram. I have a lot of Instagrams, but that's my business Instagram. That's my business Instagram. If you want to follow my tattoos, that's also in my bio. But yeah, Keeping Up with the Calligs is the main one and we love chatting with you. So thank you for keeping up and we'll talk to you next time.